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GREENSBORO — Outside public view, groups of county commissioners are meeting to talk about everything from the property tax rate to arts funding in next year's budget.

County commissioners are talking in small groups — bypassing a law to include the public in their meetings — as they determine how to cut the 2008-09 budget.

Since last week, Kirk Perkins, Guilford County Board of Commissioners chairman, said he has called or personally met with each board member about the proposed $587 million budget.

They're talking about the highest property tax rate the board members would pass, he said, which is likely to mean the owner of a $200,000 home would pay up to $100 more in county taxes next year.

Commissioners also are discussing whether to fund other items, including:

* A health clinic for an underserved Greensboro neighborhood, $250,000

* Arts groups in Greensboro and High Point, $345,000

* A high school dropout prevention program, $200,000

* Four extra EMT logistics technicians for Guilford County EMS at $40,000 per position, $160,000 total.

And commissioners are talking about increasing the funding for Guilford County Schools by $10 to $12 million.

The way in which Perkins is polling the board members outside official meetings is nothing new to the budget process in Guilford County, but some commissioners and open government advocates don't like that the meetings happen away from public view.

The meetings aren't illegal. Six or more members together is considered a public meeting for Guilford commissioners, which means that the board must notify the public in advance.

"You or I may agree or disagree with the decisions about something in the budget," said Amanda Martin, general counsel for the N.C. Press Association, "but if we see how they got there or we see the compromises that they made, then we might see how, yes, they got it."

Several board members said what the commissioners want in the budget could be mostly settled by Thursday, when the board is expected to approve the budget.

"Nobody commits in blood," Perkins said. "They may say that they want this, and then they'll decide come meeting time they want something else."

Perkins spoke to other commissioners at least 10 times Tuesday, he said, and has dealt with board members on the budget many times in the past week.

The goal is to find at least six votes to pass the budget, several commissioners said.

"It's hard to get six to agree on anything," said Commissioner Paul Gibson. He said he may agree with something in the budget but change his mind at the last minute.

Regarding the process, Gibson agreed that the discussions should happen in public. That may come down to openness among the commissioners themselves.

"I may want to say 'Hell no, I'm not going to fund whatever it is,'" Gibson said, "but I can say that in a small group."

Commissioner Steve Arnold said he would like to see more meetings and a more detailed budget.

"This year, we have only had two work sessions. We haven't discussed numbers. We haven't given any direction to the manager," he said, referring to County Manager David McNeill, who gave the board his recommended budget last month.

Commissioner Linda Shaw wants another meeting after the commissioners come up with their proposed budget.

"The entire board should have town hall meetings," she said.

Although that could better show the budget process for North Carolina's third-largest county, elected officials anywhere can still talk to one-another anytime. Call it a fact of politics and life: colleagues get chatty.

About what?

"I'm the chairman and I'm talking to the commissioners," Perkins said of the budget, "and we won't know until Thursday night."

Which is when the public will know what the board has been talking about, too.

Contact Gerald Witt at 373-7008 or gerald.witt@news-record.com