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Location is key for Trader Joe’s

Sunday, January 29, 2012
(Updated 5:59 am)
By Amanda Lehmert
Staff Writer

GREENSBORO — Foodies are aching for a Trader Joe’s with its cheap wine and ever-evolving line of specialty foods.

But surely there is a better place for it than a residential block, argue opponents of a proposed Friendly Avenue development believed to include a Trader Joe’s.

If Greensboro residents are willing to drive to Chapel Hill to shop , they will drive to one of the other empty plazas in the city, opponents argue.

“They are a destination. People are going to go to Trader Joe’s in Greensboro wherever it is,” said Mark O’Connor, leader of the residential opposition to the proposed Regency Centers development.

That may be. But businesses like Trader Joe’s — which expands into new markets deliberately — know what they want, real estate experts said.

They want the best shopping center Greensboro has to offer.

“There is no comparison to be drawn between Friendly shopping center and any shopping center at the edge of town,” said Chris Widmayer, vice president of developer Regency Centers, which hopes to build a 50,000-square-foot shopping center at Hobbs Road and West Friendly Avenue. “Best-in-class retailers want to be next to best-in-class retailers. I’m not interested in going anyplace else.”

Widmayer declined to name which grocer may come to the site.

The developers will submit plans for Hobbs Market­place to the city as soon as next month.

Residents are right. Greensboro has plenty of space for new stores without building new shopping plazas.

Northwest Guilford County has 3.83 million square feet of retail space. As of the third quarter, 14 percent of that was vacant, according to the research firm Karnes.

Neighborhood shopping plazas similar in size to the proposed Hobbs Market­place have some of the highest vacancy rates — about 24 percent.

Regional shopping centers, such as The Shops at Friendly Center, are fairing better at 5 percent vacancy, according to the Karnes data.

Plenty of neighborhoods would like to have a new grocery store — any grocery store.

Take the city-owned Phillips Avenue shopping plaza that lost its Winn-Dixie more than a decade ago.

Save-A-Lot had lined up to take its place, but the deal recently fell through. Northeast Greensboro neighbors are wishing some other grocer would take its place.

“We would welcome them with open arms,” said Vernon Powell , a spokesman for the proposed developer of the plaza where Save-A-Lot would have located. “We do have the appropriate space from a square footage perspective. Whether or not it meets their demographics would be the question I have.”

Residents near the Golden Gate shopping center on Cornwallis Drive pitched their plaza to Trader Joe’s. The plaza lost its small Harris Teeter last year.

City Councilman Zack Matheny said he contacted the person in charge of locating new Trader Joe’s, hoping to recruit the grocer there. Matheny said Golden Gate is not able, based on legal agreements, to lease space to a new grocery store. The leasing agent for the plaza declined to talk about the issue.

Further, Trader Joe’s isn’t interested to moving to that part of Greensboro, Matheny said.

“If Trader Joe’s were to come to Greensboro, the only place they would want to be would be Friendly Center,” Matheny said.

Major retailers carefully study demographic data, like household income, before deciding where to move.

“They know where they can be successful and where they can’t be successful,” said Lee Porter, chairman of the Realtors Commercial Alliance.

Trader Joe’s — particularly tight-lipped about its business practices — is known for its controlled, careful expansion plans. A Trader Joe’s spokeswoman declined to describe the company’s customer base.

Regency Centers manages the Cary shopping center anchored by Trader Joe’s. That location serves a high-income crowd with an average household income of $97,645 in a three-mile radius, according to Regency Centers.

The neighborhood around Friendly Center is not quite as posh, although it is home to some of the wealthiest residents of the region. The average household income there is $72,163, according to shopping center owner CBL & Associates.

Although many of its North Carolina locations are in high-end retail areas, Trader Joe’s has not historically restricted its expansions to those places.

“I’ve seen Trader Joe’s early on in very non­descript strip malls,” said Meg Major, editor-in-chief of Progressive Grocer magazine.

What Trader Joe’s wants is what a lot of retailers want: a dense population and access along a major corridor, Major said.

“They have very loyal customers and very unique product lines,” Major said.

Some neighbors have pledged to fight the development, no matter who is the tenant. That has led some locals, including city leaders, to worry that Trader Joe’s or national developer Regency Centers might not be willing to work in Greensboro in the future.

Or worse: If Trader Joe’s can’t be near Friendly Center, then it won’t come to Greensboro at all.

“If we keep turning folks away, eventually some of these players are not going to come back,” said Chris Lawyer, a resident who joined an informal campaign to bring Trader Joe’s to Greensboro.

That’s an argument neighbors who oppose the development don’t buy.

“They are coming regardless,” said O’Connor, the neighborhood opposition leader. “This is not the only place they are coming or else they won’t come. That’s a preposterous argument.”

Contact Amanda Lehmert at 373-7075 or amanda.lehmert@news-record.com
 

Accompanying Photos

Photo Caption: The Trader Joe's store in Chapel Hill.

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polaroid

January 29, 2012 - 8:08 am EST

Here we go the City Council/Neighborhood knows better than Trader Joe's where they need to locate to be successful. I support Trader Joe's decision to not knuckle under and build where they need to locate to be profitable. I know that's a dirty word in some circles, profit, but I dont know anyone that got a job from a poor man.
The City has spent millions on sidewalks and a beautiful brick wall from Holden to Wendover in the West Friendly neighborhood , they haven't done that any where else to aid in noise and site reduction. So quite bellyaching.
And don't you think these large food retailers don't talk to each other. What do you think Trader Joes response would be to a future retailer when they ask. Hey I heard you guys want to build in Greensboro how's that going?
And by the way before you ask, yes I would have it in my neighborhood but I understand I'm not in their economic demographic. Oops another bad word, sorry for the reality.

1234

January 30, 2012 - 7:41 am EST

NO MORE CREEP of zoning into residential! Look at all the vacant retail space, JUST SAY NO!

What about Quaker village in the old Fresh Market location?

bimbigirl

January 29, 2012 - 8:24 am EST

Seriously?? We keep being told speculatively that it is a Trader Joe's that is being put there, but no one has confirmed it. What I find interesting is that this builder is throwing this possibility out there to hype people without definitive proof. Someone is using Trader Joe's as leverage. So the land gets developed, we get CVS, and Safe-Way? Lovely. Until someone definitively provides proof that it is indeed a Trader Joe's then I think we should assume that it is just another strip mall - after all developers don't often fall in the category of most honest and trustworthy. They are all about money and nothing more, and most will do it any expense. At this juncture it is yet another ugly strip mall and nothing more.

bubbanikki

January 29, 2012 - 8:53 am EST

I definitely believe if they build a Traders Joe's they will come but the location of Hobbs and Friendly will be a traffic nightmare. Yes and there are many locations Trader's Joe could choose that would be more beneficial to the city. What about the shopping center just north of Golden Gate at the corner of Church St and Cone? Great access and located near a variety of income neighborhoods. Great benefits for all !!

hugh

January 29, 2012 - 9:18 am EST

Demographics. Hobbs/Friendly has the best. Cone/Church doesn't meet specs.

dandyseniors

January 30, 2012 - 9:24 am EST

Agree.

Traveler

January 29, 2012 - 10:54 am EST

I have never shopped at Trader Joe's, so I admit I do not understand their draw.

Here is what I do know.

There is way too much vacant retail space in Greensboro.

There are at least a dozen existing locations which could house a 50,000 sf retail business.

The reason those spaces are vacant is that the previous tenants found them to be unprofitable.

The shops around Friendly are the most desirable in Greensboro, TODAY. The Starmount people have done an excellent job of making the shopping center "the place to be". I remember 20 years or so ago, the 4 Seasons mall (really Joe Kory) was kicking their butts.

Stores want to be in desirable locations.

The "non-compete" clause of Friendly prevents a grocery store locating there to compete against Harris-Teeter.

The four houses in the proposed development are run-down. It would take someone with a lot of money for a "fixer-up" to buy them to live in.

The property owners probably can sell them for commercial development at a much higher price than they could sell those houses as "fixer-up" single family homes.

The developers are not looking for taxpayer help, like the $100,000 interest free, forgivable loan (aka give-away) make to North Eugene partners to build a new store for Deep Roots.

Unfortunately, it seems to be a lose-lose situation. There is a lot of empty retail space where businesses do not want to locate. The most successful location in Greensboro is the area around Shops at Friendly. Neighbors do not want more retail space in their upscale community.

I see no way for a compromise.

Having said all of that, I am conservative enough to believe that property owners have the right to do what they want with their property, as long as it does not create a danger to their neighbors. I don't think a new shopping center could be classified as a danger. The development should be allowed.

dandyseniors

January 30, 2012 - 9:26 am EST

Great comment!

katei

January 30, 2012 - 11:33 am EST

The development SHOULD NOT be allowed.

"The reason those spaces are vacant is that the previous tenants found them to be unprofitable." The reason the former Fresh Market at Quaker and the old Harris Teeter on Cornwallis are available is because Fresh Market and Harris Teeter both OUTGREW the dimensions. In the years since the grocers opened those locations, both FM and HT have increased their inventory and demand for shelf-space. Hence the mega-Fresh Market on New Garden.... and the "Taj-Ma-Teeters" in Friendly, Pisgah, and (somewhat smaller) Lawndale.

It's bogus to think Trader Joe's wouldn't do well in either. They're less than 3 miles away from Friendly AND Quaker Village is across the street from a liberal college where most student live on-campus and would rather shop Trader Joe's than Harris Teeter.

As it stands, those homes are standing sustainable properties. Otherwise healthy shopping centers need an anchor like Trader Joe's---Friendly Center does not.

Don't spew the misconception that Friendly Center is the only decent retail area in town.

shine

January 30, 2012 - 2:32 pm EST

You don't understand the power Harris Teeter and Fresh Market have in development around the community. Those businesses are powerful enough to make non compete agreements and continue to rent empty spaces to prevent new grocery stores from moving in. Friendly isn't the only place by far, but the companies that own Golden Gate and Quaker have let those properties deteriorate. Parking lots haven't been paved in years and spaces haven't been renovated for longer. I remember when those spaces were new, and those owners have not kept up their property well enough to attract even a Dollar Tree.

justified

January 29, 2012 - 9:01 am EST

I don't care what they build as long as its not close to me.

Gso Resident

January 29, 2012 - 9:29 am EST

I would support a $100,000 loan to TJ's for this project.

truthteller

January 29, 2012 - 5:41 pm EST

...then you should be more than happy for Trader Joe's to build in your front yard so you can enjoy having them as your neighbor.

guilford county 123

January 29, 2012 - 9:31 am EST

I wish the News and Record staff would learn not to begin sentences with conjunctions, and not offset clauses with dashes. It sounds ignorant, not crisp or more conversational, if that is the goal. Surely the editor eulogized in today's paper wouldn't let it happen.

tell it

January 29, 2012 - 9:57 am EST

First of all I don't understand all the hype of "trader Joe's",been there done that,as far as location instead of starting out on a bad foot with the community,the area around highway 68 and Wendover would seem like a much better location.The TJ in Charlotte around Mallard Creek certainly isn't around any influential neighborhoods.I especially avoid the Friendly area because of congestion,don't understand why someone would locate to a congested area I know people avoid

bimbigirl

January 29, 2012 - 10:05 am EST

And if this is truly a TJ's and this is truly their mentality, I will choose to take my business to retailers that have worked with the community than against it, such as Whole Foods. I love shopping at Trader Joe's, but I don't love them that much, and I certainly don't like to be bullied with the it's "this or else" mentality. That's like a bad relationship and take it somewhere else. I live in the area, and I certainly won't spend my dollars at the CVS either. And if it's demographics they are after, the old Fresh Market on Lawndale is bordered by New Irving Park, and Lake Jeanette which is a more in line with the Cary demographic. Developers need to start repurposing old buildings, and our city council needs to offer incentives to do this. Otherwise, we end up with a really, really unappealing city littered with ugly, empty vacated concrete jungles.

arnie

January 29, 2012 - 3:44 pm EST

Yeah yeah yeah. And 911 was a conspiracy. It was a plane on a giant video screen, and the CIA blew up the WTC. And a plane did not hit the Pentagon, it was a missle. Blah blah blah

hugh

January 29, 2012 - 7:30 pm EST

Bibmbigirl is right and that is the risk the market takes when it makes decisions that tick off some folks. We all have our places we don't go because of whatever reason.

Mine of note is the downtown stadium. I loved going to the games a the old ball stadium and when the city caved to melvin and sold him the land based on an appraisal he obtained without getting a 2nd opinion the taxpayers were screwed.
Never have set foot in the new place and never will.

arnie

January 29, 2012 - 8:22 pm EST

Bimbi is short for conspiracy theory want to be in agreement with that? The new stadium was not a consiparacy it was a sc******

Panacea

January 29, 2012 - 10:14 am EST

The developer won't have to live with the consequences of the proposed shopping center or the increased traffic it will bring to that part of town, which is already pretty heavy because of the Shoppes at Friendly Center. He'll take his money and move on to the next project.

The city needs to listen carefully to its citizens about the rezoning, and stick with its development plan.

zalo731

January 29, 2012 - 10:16 am EST

Widmayer doesn't work for Trader Joe's...He works for the company that is looking to build a shopping center to pitch to TJ as a site for one of their stores. Now TJ may be highly inclined to go there should everything be approved and get it at a rental rate they want to pay, but for him to state that the only location that TJ would consider is right next to the most prominent/upscale shopping center in town is simply untrue. The sites of the other locations in NC confirm it. The Wake Forest Rd location in Raleigh is in a standard strip center just off the beltline. It is in the general area of their preferred customer base. The same holds true for the two Charlotte locations. Neither one of those stores is in the immediate SouthPark area which boasts the highest income neighborhoods in the Carolinas.

These s/c plans also include accomodations for a drugstore, which at the end of the day, is probably the reason Regency is coming in to do this development. The drugstore (Walgreens or CVS?) only needs about an acre & in order to make that happen is to take in the other homes in the area and develop all the property into a shopping center. I can see why a drugstore would like that location, it being only on the other side of Friendly Ctr. from Wesley Long Hosptial. However, if Regency came in with plans for a drugstore on that corner as the main reason for the project, the request would be D.O.A. due to neighborhood opposition, and people like Matheny are not going to fall on their sword going against the neighborhood congress for such a use. But you dangle a desired user like TJ and now you got people all hyped up.

Until Widmayer can get someone from TJ to state definatively that they are on board & no turning back with a fully executed lease, then beware!!. It could easily come out after the rezoning approval, that well you know "in good faith" we tried to work with & accomodate TJ's requests but could not come to terms. In that case you have the same situation as played out with the Sav A Lot at Bessemer. This is a high probability of being a Bait & Switch which Greensboro is familiar with referring to the Aquatics Ctr. Just make sure that Regency Centers aren't getting consulting advice from Matt Brown at the Coliseum!!

barry31

January 29, 2012 - 10:42 am EST

zalo731 - please re-read the article and then correct your comment. Unless you heard it elsewhere, Widmayer wasn't quoted saying anything close to what you said. Intentional or not, spreading misinformation won't help either position.

zalo731

January 29, 2012 - 12:23 pm EST

“There is no comparison to be drawn between Friendly shopping center and any shopping center at the edge of town,” said Chris Widmayer, vice president of developer Regency Centers, which hopes to build a 50,000-square-foot shopping center at Hobbs Road and West Friendly Avenue. “Best-in-class retailers want to be next to best-in-class retailers. I’m not interested in going anyplace else.”

What other assumption would one infer other than in his opinion Trader Joe's doesn't want to go anywhere else. That is the hype that is being ratcheted up with the help of the N&R with their above the fold headline in the Sunday paper no less and with not one but two articles.I guess its a slow news day, NOT! I mean the governor of the state declares her withdrawal from running for re-election and on the following Sunday where you would expect the whole front page to be plastered with various stories about the different angles of what this annoucement can mean for Greensboro and NC and you get as the above the fold story the saga of a grocery store possibly coming to town. Trader Joe's doen't need a big promotion budget with this kind of advertising.

And by the way, I am not spreading misinformation but merely stating my opinion like others on this space. It appears to me that Barry31 maybe someone close to the situation, doesn't like my theory because it hits fairly close to the truth, I don't know but just sayin...

Also, what we do know is that there is absolutely no confirmation that TJ is coming to this site, only a possibility. As I and others pointed out, other NC TJ locations are sited in areas that do not have the gold standard "best in class" retailers that he says Trader Joe's has as a requirement for selecting a site. Nothing against the guy, he's just doing his best to pitch a project that he wants to happen. And there's nothing wrong with me or anyone else on this space responding with an opinion based on the information we have at hand.

Traveler

January 29, 2012 - 12:35 pm EST

I understand your comments and agree with much of it. It's anybody's guess who the tenant would be, if the strip were developed.

What most people miss is the property owner's right to get the most money for their property. I am pretty sure the four home owners will get more from selling to developers than to see their run-down property as fixer-ups to someone wanting a single family home.

Thank God this is American. People have the right to do what they want with their property, as long as it doesn't endanger their neighbors. Very few Greensboro citizens want government telling us what we can and cannot do.

oh good grief

January 29, 2012 - 8:05 pm EST

" . . . [a] property owner's right to get the most money for their property" happens each and every day EXCEPT THIS development depends on a RE-ZONING from Residential to Commercial, duh -- different ballgame.

Now unless the Zoning Board and other governmental agencies are "in bed" with the developer, this may not be a done deal BUT, judging from some past decisions of the Zoning Board and other governmental agencies, there is probably only one hope for this "development" to be stifled.

The one hope of stopping it, in my opinion, rests with the Traffic/Safety Dept. in that this development is proposef for an already congested and dangerous traffic situation on Hobbs AND Friendly at the "proposed" ingress/egress points of the proposed development.

The topography alone of Hobbs Road from Friendly Avenue north to Cornwallis SHOULD BE the stopper for this project. If you are traveling South on Hobbs and coming up to the Northline intersection, the hilly topography leaves you with an all but blind intersection and the same goes for traveling North on Hobbs to the Northline intersection. Add into that the "lane/s?" going in and exiting the proposed shopping center would create more "blind" problems for people proceeding north on Hobbs from Friendly or south on Hobbs to Friendly.

All in all, I would say that any thinking person would have doubts about both the Hobbs and Friendly Avenue entrances/exits to the proposed property.

I think the opponents need to get some "action" photos of the way the topography of that section of Hobbs prevents a driver from seeing approaching cars or even cars pulling out of or turning into the proposed development on the Hobbs Road side.

Just my two cents, but hopefully the opponents of this project can take those two cents to the bank, so to speak.

Oh, and while I'm at it, does anyone else think that perhaps Nancy Vaughn was there for a "personal" reason or reason(s)?

My guess -- she was there to drum up business for "Attorney Don" which, if he took the case, could mean that she probably(?) would recuse from voting on the project so later she could say "Oh, I couldn't vote on that. You KNOW I had a conflict and if I hadn't had a "conflict" I would have been right there with you folks joining in about the problems associated with the development." She's an at-large council member with enough "conflicts" up her sleeve to avoid any sticky situation. The only time she "represents" everyone? is when she is campaigning and that doesn't count.

abt106

January 29, 2012 - 11:08 am EST

I agree with bimbi.This is all based on speculation. The dirty secret is once land is rezoned out of residential it can not go back to residential. EVER. What that means is once they re-zone the area (thinking a TJ is moving in) the deal can fall through at the last second and we have another dead vacant lot. Also, it is much easier to change between the different levels of commerical zoning. So if they come back with a "open access" or "restricted commerical" zoning restriction all it takes is some paperwork to easily switch that. Don't buy the bull they are selling folks. The City Council and Board are all developers and don't care who they crush to make a cheap buck. I want to see the actual written word from TJ they are coming. Until I see that, we are being feed a fairy tale!

barry31

January 29, 2012 - 11:34 am EST

If, after the speculation of 'it's only a bait and switch rezoning attempt by an unscrupulous greedy developer' theory is proved to be wrong, I for one will wholeheartedly support bringing Trader Joe's to this location. Adding 50k SF to an area that already has over a MILLION SF, certainly won't add a nightmarish amount of new traffic. To say otherwise is preposterously absurd.

DonMoore

January 29, 2012 - 11:40 am EST

Put Trader Joe's at the Coliseum. It can be the lynch pin to the world domination of Matt Brown's empire on Lee Street.

truthteller

January 29, 2012 - 12:26 pm EST

The continued expansion of Friendly Shopping Center westward will end creating as much square footage of retail space as the Wendover Avenue shopping area near I-40 that has ended up being a giant traffiic nightmare. I have no desire to see a repeat of that disaster in any other part of Greensboro.

Traveler

January 29, 2012 - 4:25 pm EST

Most of Friendly Shopping Center and the Shops at Friendly were developed by Starmount Company. Starmount worked their butts off to make the area a terrific shopping destination. 20 or so years ago, very few people wanted to shop at Friendly. It was old and unappealing. The favorite shopping destination was 4 Seasons. Starmount spent their money to upgrade and are now top dog.

This development is by another company who wants to tap into the appealing shopping destination that Starmount has created.

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