Theater bond vote on table : News-Record.com : Greensboro & the Triad's most trusted source for local news and analysis

GREENSBORO — The City Council agreed Tuesday to pursue a November bond referendum for a performing arts center — ideally built downtown — but stopped short of putting it on the ballot.

Council members said they want Greensboro Coliseum Complex Director Matt Brown to manage the theater and help with the design, even if it ends up downtown.

A downtown theater could cost an estimated $49 million to $72 million — substantially more than the one Brown proposed to replace the aging War Memorial Auditorium.

Brown’s plan would cost between $32 million and $43 million, according to estimates by city staffers.

Council members said Tuesday that downtown advocates would have to raise the extra money. It was not clear Tuesday who might take up that effort.

If the advocates fail, the council will consider Brown’s original plan to build the center at the coliseum.

“The public sector shouldn’t be asked to bear any greater burden downtown than it should be asked to bear at the coliseum,” Mayor Robbie Perkins said.

It will take months of planning and a public hearing before the City Council can vote to put the referendum on the November ballot.

The council also agreed Tuesday to spend about $24 million on other coliseum improvements proposed by Brown. The council will pay for those projects with hotel and motel room taxes.

Projects include replacing arena seats, expanding the coliseum’s upper concourse, installing new roofs and widening the main hallway at the new Greensboro Aquatic Center.

The city has asked voters twice to approve bonds to replace the outdated War Memorial Auditorium. Both efforts failed — in part, according to Perkins, because some people wanted the performing arts center downtown instead of at the coliseum.

Brown asked council members Tuesday to put a third referendum on the ballot this year, this one to build a $36 million coliseum-area center. Brown said it would be paid for with taxpayer-funded bonds and $11 million in hotel-motel tax revenue.

But some council members said they like the idea of building a theater downtown instead.

“The community, I think, would be receptive to having it downtown if we could figure out a way to do it,” Perkins said. “It would have a better chance of having the bonds pass.”

Councilwoman Trudy Wade said, “Personally, I think it would fit in downtown better if the cost is the same.”

Based on early estimates, the costs would not be the same.

Brown’s plan is cheaper, since it calls for using the coliseum’s existing land, parking and infrastructure.

A downtown performing arts center wouldn’t have that luxury. The city staff estimates it could cost as much as $29 million more — rough figures based on a 2,600-seat theater design that is smaller than the center Brown proposes.

Interim City Manager Denise Roth said the city needs to develop more reliable figures as the research continues.

The council’s decision Tuesday to pursue a bond referendum does not mean the issue will make it onto the ballot in November. The council must make that decision at a future meeting.

Not every council member was convinced that this was the right time for a referendum. Wade and Councilman Zack Matheny questioned whether the economy is in the right shape for the city to take on more debt.

Contact Amanda Lehmert at 373-7075 or amanda.lehmert@news-record.com

ravencottage

January 25, 2012 - 7:37 am EST

I'm wondering what it's going to take before some folks realize local bonds are simply code for tax increases often to be paid by those not yet born.

flagstik

January 25, 2012 - 8:03 am EST

About the same time that they figure out that money does not grow on trees. If we are taking in so much cash from the hotel tax why can't it be used to pay down some of the debt?

destinys mother in law

January 25, 2012 - 8:08 am EST

The aquatic center is paying for itself and offering thousands of Greensboro children an opportunity for recreation. Some bonds are worth it.

January 25, 2012 - 8:46 am EST

Big whoop. And the children had zero opportunities for recreation before?

Abner Doon

January 25, 2012 - 9:23 am EST

The Aquatic Center is certainly not paying for itself.

If you believe this to be true,
please show your math.

They don't count the principal and interest on the debt.

Kelly Quillen

January 25, 2012 - 2:48 pm EST

Big Whoop?? The Aquatic Center provides much needed pool time that was not previously available in this area. Children are being taught life safety and swimming skills, adults are using it for water therapy...and today, they are hosting swimming and diving championships that would have been held at some other venue that benefited from that economic impact.

January 25, 2012 - 3:42 pm EST

Another Big Whoop.

Mick

January 25, 2012 - 10:10 am EST

The GAC is probably not paying for itself and probably never will (which is actually why such facilities are typically municipally owned in the first place) but it is doing far better than even most supporters expected.
Thousands of visitors are coming to Gso via the GAC. They eat, they sleep, they buy. It is early yet and it will be difficult to repeat this seasons successes on an ongoing basis. But all is better than well!

The GAC will never receive monetary credit for money it generates via various taxes. I dont even think The GAC gets credit to the bottom line for the parking moola generated by visitors. Those income streams are likely reasonably substantial and will not be credited to the GAC. Unfortunate but reality.

The upcoming PAC debate will be interesting.

Traveler

January 25, 2012 - 10:09 am EST

Please share your source for that statement.

I have not seen any figures, anywhere, that the Aquatic center is paying for itself.

I have not seen any figures that the operating expenses are covered by revenue from the center.

I have not seen any figures that interest on bonds and fund to retire debt is coming from revenue from the center.

Please, before you make such a statement, check your facts and share your source.

Copper1

January 25, 2012 - 10:24 am EST

The aquatic center is a dog loser, it will require a $1,000,000.00 from the general fund to cover maintenance costs alone. You need to spend a little less time breathing the chlorine and ride down to the MMOB and ask the city manager for the real numbers......it's public information

January 25, 2012 - 10:40 am EST

I expect Traveler will respond as he did to Destiny... yes?

January 25, 2012 - 11:35 am EST

I doubt that figure.

A $1,000,000 operating loss for the Aquatic center seems high.

The taxpayers have been subsidizing the coliseum for years, in the rough neighborhood of $1,000,000 per year.

I don't think the Aquatic Center has been open for a year to get a full year operating cost.

I do think that disclosure of the operating profit or loss for the coliseum, the Aquatic Center, and the Performing Arts Center would help educate the voters on the issue.

January 25, 2012 - 8:45 am EST

I have some questions.

1. Is the proposal to pay for the bonds with city property taxes or will there be different way to pay such as Robbie's prepared food tax idea, tax on each ticket to the Performing Arts Center, etc?

2. The current Performing Arts Center seems to cater to mostly white, mostly weatlhy patrons for shows like "Chicago", "Mama Mia", etc. Will scheduling bring in a more diverse crowd?

3. What is the projected attendance for events at the proposed PAC?

4. Is the projected attendance local citizens or out-of-town visitors?

5. Is there any assurance that the proposed PAC will be self-substaining, or will the proposed PAC require annual funding from the city (taxpayers) for operating expenses?

6. How will the taxpayers of Greensboro realize a positive return on their tax dollars?

oh good grief

January 25, 2012 - 11:09 am EST

From the article: "Council members said they want Greensboro Coliseum Complex Director Matt Brown to manage the theater and help with the design, even if it ends up downtown."

Obviously the devil is in the details. After all, Matt is SOOOOOO GOOOOD at maintenance of facilities already under his charge.

I've been thinking for years that Matt Brown is our "Mayor," or at the least the Chief String Puller. Yep, ole Matt found his niche (although some might call it a "rat's nest") in this burg. Wish someone from the West Coast would "recruit" Matt to head up (read "finagle") some of their "projects."

Traveler said: "4. Is the projected attendance local citizens or out-of-town visitors?"

Don't know how to tell you this, Traveler, but probably "counted" as "out-of-town visitors" could be people from Browns Summit, McLeansville, Julian, or perhaps from as far away as Candor (if I were a resident of Candor I'd be wanting to "get out of town" every chance I got).

January 25, 2012 - 12:20 pm EST

I agree.

I think this is the kind of question that needs to be answered to educate the voters on this issue.

If any project is going to cost $50,000,000 and bring in $200,000,000, then it is worth looking at.

If a project is going to cost $50,000,000 and bring in $1.95, then it should be looked at.

My experience from attending several events at the current auditorium is that the crowd is mostly white, most wealthy, maybe 10,000 different people. Most live around here and would not bring in lodging, dinning, etc. as an "economic impact". There are supporters of this issue who claim a new Performing Arts Center will bring in out-of-town visitors who will spend big dollars. I don't think they are right. If the pro-PAC crowd are projecting $7,500,000 (or whatever figure) in annual economic impact, they need to justify their claim.

GCS Parent

January 25, 2012 - 9:59 am EST

Greensboro does need a PAC downtown. But, not the one this city council will build. What we need is a COMMUNITY performance space that is large enough to handle smaller touring companies and all of the local theatre/music/dance/school performances that so desperately need space to perform in Greensboro. We do not need to build a PAC that competes with Charlotte, Raleigh, and Durham downtown. Let Mack renovate War Mem. to do that. The city could have bought the YWCA and rennovated, or torn it down and built a smaller venue that would be just what the community needs. If we build a mega-PAC downtown, then what happens to War Mem.? It will fall to ruin since no touring show will choose it over the new downtown PAC? What will that cost the city? We will end up with both venues, and then they will both suffer from lack of bookings that pay the bills then they will both have to be propped up by tax payers. STUPID!

GIVE US A COMMUNITY PAC.

bjgreen

January 25, 2012 - 10:30 am EST

As one who frequents entertainment of all types and particularly plays, my wife and I have stopped attending in Greensboro and drive to Durham as the venue in Greensboro is terrible for viewing a play or musical. You feel like you are in a school cafeteria that converts to a "theater". The acoustics are terrible. I would favor a new venue but would like to have firmer details. I question it being in the current area as traffic and especially parking is already stressed in that area. I few years ago we did attend our last event there and all of the lots were full as there was a big ticket music event there at the same time. The event was delay half an hour and we parked a mile away and had to walk in the January cold. If that area is chosen, parking and traffic have to be addressed as it is a multi use facility.

January 25, 2012 - 11:03 am EST

As someone who would frequent events at the Performing Arts Center, please share your opinion on a couple of things.

When you drive to Durham for the events, do you eat, shop, spend the night in Durham, or do you drive there just for the event (trying to gage "economic benefit" from out-of-town visitors)?

How much would you personally contribute to a fund for private money to build a new Performing Arts Center? (If there are 10,000 people who use the facility and each were to give $5,000, that would make the $50,000,000 or so needed to build the center without taxpayer money).

beedev

January 25, 2012 - 10:55 am EST

What happen to War Memorial?? Level it and build a much needed parking deck. A no-brainer.

rooster8786

January 25, 2012 - 7:19 pm EST

what if the WAR Memorial was honoring someone in your family who died in a war? It is a memorial to those who served and died. I'm amazed at how quickly our "leaders" forget this. Look at what they did to the baseball stadium & now they want to do it to the auditorium.

January 25, 2012 - 10:20 am EST

WHAT....widening the main hallway at the new Greensboro Aquatic Center. For God's sake, the place isn't out of the one year warranty yet and now we're already knocking down walls!!! When is the taxpayers going to wake up and start demanding responsibility by the architect and general contractor. These changes should be completed at NO COST to the taxpayer for the their failures. Who signed off on the inspection card, who stamped the drawings?

January 25, 2012 - 10:46 am EST

How is the GC responsible? They built what they were asked to build.

However, I agree the do-over seems silly and wasteful. I simply do not understand what neccesitates the proposed remodel. Nor do I understand why Copper1 comment was even made.

ANY new PAC cannot be at Coliseum. That place is over capacity as is. Nice problem to have but no reason to make it even worse!

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