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Who was the real Mary Ann Holder?

Sunday, December 11, 2011
(Updated 7:21 am)

— She is the mystery woman at the center of the tragedy that took the lives of five children, all related to her by blood or marriage.

Authorities say the late Mary Ann Holder is the prime suspect in the gunshot slayings of her two sons, two nieces and a nephew on Nov. 20. The gruesome events also include shooting her ex-boyfriend, plus her subsequent suicide as a deputy approached her parked car that morning.

Friends and family struggle with that explanation for a catastrophe that rocked the close-knit Pleasant Garden community, where she lived on and off the past 20 years.

“It feels like we’re looking at a puzzle with the outside put together, but the whole inside is missing,” says Mark Couch, whose wife was a close friend of Holder. “The ballistics may line up. The physical evidence may point to it. But in our hearts, it doesn’t fit.”

The killings could not be carried out by the Holder they knew, he and others insist — not in her right mind. Either that, or she deceived them for years about her true nature — a cold-blooded killer masquerading as a conscientious parent, loyal friend and generous caregiver.

“She always said, 'My kids are my life,’” said David Stokes, who dated her for much of the past year. “After seeing her with them, she loved those kids more than life itself, I guarantee you.”

The Guilford County Sheriff’s Office continues to probe such quandaries as who got shot in what order and why. A report will be forthcoming with chemical tests and other forensic evidence that could provide a more definitive picture.

But a related mystery runs just as deep. Who was the real Mary Ann Holder?

Part of the answer lies somewhere in a web of  failed marriage and broken relationships that span two generations in several families. It centers on Holder’s efforts to fulfill a deathbed promise to a dear friend. And it involves her apparent panic about a threatened lawsuit.

Rough beginnings

Holder was born out of wedlock in June 1975. The father was a man her mother turned to as her first marriage disintegrated, said Frances “Frankie” Holder, Mary Ann’s mom.

“If you read between the lines, my first husband and I had problems,” she said, asserting he was repeatedly unfaithful.

The second man also mistreated her, she said, leaving her virtually penniless with two sons from her first marriage and six months pregnant with her daughter.

To the rescue came James C. Holder, a former Guilford County resident who “stepped up to the plate” by marrying her, adopting her three kids and helping raise them, she said.

Mary Ann Holder moved around a fair amount with her new family, but spent a lot of her childhood in and around McLeansville, her mother said.

One day at school, she met the girl who would become her closest friend and, in the end, the source of much sorrow — Carrie Beth Hunt.

“We were in gym class at McLeansville Middle School. I had already met her twin sister, Mary Leigh, in science class earlier that day,” Holder wrote in a hospital blog Feb. 27, as Beth’s life ebbed away from an unyielding lung infection.

“Beth was sitting on the bleachers and I could hear her singing a song. She had a pretty voice and I asked her what the song was. She started singing it a little louder ... The song was, “While He was on the cross, I was on His mind.”

The three girls were inseparable, visiting  each other’s homes, sharing family vacations, one knowing the other’s thought before it was spoken.

Growing up fast

Another benefit for Holder in knowing Beth and Leigh turned out to be their musician brother, Robert “Rocky” Smith Jr., who was two years older.

Rocky and the twin girls, along with two other brothers, were the biological children of a mother who was unable for medical reasons to keep up with such a large family.

The biological parents allowed the twin girls to be adopted by the Hunt family, a couple they knew through their Greensboro church, Gospel for the World Tabernacle on Pineland Street.

Similarly, Rocky was adopted by his grandparents, Tootsie and Pa, who lived in the house on Cocoa Drive where, two decades later, four of the Nov. 20  shootings would occur.

Holder and Rocky had known each other since their days at Pleasant Garden Elementary, but as she moved into her middle teens, their friendship blossomed and one thing led to another.

“I knew she was pregnant two weeks before she told me,” Frankie Holder said of the 15-year-old who came home from school in tears one day in 1991. “She said, 'Mom, I can’t tell you;  it’s bad, it’s bad.’

“And I said, 'Well, let me tell you, Mary Ann, you’re pregnant.’”

Rocky persuaded Holder’s mother to let the two teens marry. After a while, the newlyweds took up residence on Cocoa Drive with Rocky’s grandparents and their new baby, Christina Nichole, the only one of their three children not killed Nov. 20.

Life after marriage

The years went by quickly. Holder got her GED and entered the work world in roles ranging from caregiver to paralegal assistant. Robert Dylan was born in 1994, followed by Zachary Lee two years later.

The marriage to Rocky broke up about the time Zack was born in 1996, and Rocky left the Cocoa Drive house on the outskirts of Pleasant Garden so Holder could tend to his aging grandparents.

“We were too much alike,” Rocky said last week of the breakup. “And we were very young when we got married.”

They weathered some disputes in the early years of their divorce to become good friends who worked harmoniously on behalf of their kids, said Rocky Smith, who subsequently remarried. “I can’t say anything bad about Mary Ann. I don’t know anyone who could.”

After the divorce, Holder started a romantic relationship with another man she knew from school, living with him and her children in several locations after Tootsie and Pa became infirm and had to sell the Cocoa Drive house.

“She said she was never getting married again,” friend Stacy Couch said of that relationship, which lasted more than 10 years.

Holder remained close friends with Rocky’s sister, Beth, who married a man named Brian James Suttles and moved into a house in northeast Greensboro they bought from Project Homestead.

Beth introduced Holder to her pastor about five years ago as “my lifelong friend and also my former sister-in-law.”

“She said, 'Even though the marriage didn’t work out, she’s still my best friend,’” recalled the Rev. Donnie Pickeral, of Aycock Fellowship Ministries in Greensboro.

Pickeral remembers three summers back, when Beth’s adoptive mother lay gravely ill for several weeks. Pickeral arrived at the hospital in the middle of the night.

A half hour later — 3:15 a.m. — here comes Holder with Dylan and Zack in tow.

A friend in need

But the trio had dwindled to a duo: Beth’s twin, Leigh, died in a 1999 car wreck.

And Beth Suttles struggled with problems of her own stemming from fragile health and her husband’s drug addiction, according to court papers filed by Beth Suttles and Holder.

Ultimately, that addiction led him to physically abuse Beth, sending her into early labor with her third child, Holder said in court papers filed Nov. 18 —  two days before the murders.  Efforts to reach Brian Suttles for comment were unsuccessful.

Only days after the premature birth of baby Shianne, Beth would be back in the hospital with the respiratory ailment that took her life on March 9.

Holder stepped in to help orchestrate her friend’s care during the next three weeks, opening her home to Beth’s newborn and her 8-year-old daughter, Hanaleigh. The Suttles’ older child, Ricky, already had been living with Holder and her kids since July 2008.

Dozens of people who knew Beth through her church work followed her unsuccessful fight for life, which Holder chronicled on a CaringBridge website where people can document the progress of loved ones with serious medical issues.

It seems impossible to square the sensitive, caring person writing blog entries full of praise and love for Beth’s children — Ricky, Hana and newborn Shianne — with the ruthless Nov. 20 killings.

“I am heart broken,” Holder posted at 6:18 a.m. on March 9 as her friend neared death. “Beth, for the past 25 years, I have been there for you, and I will continue to be there for your kids. ALWAYS.”

Challenges at home

The fifth victim in the killings, Makayla Woods, began living with Holder in recent months at 923 Cocoa Drive.

By that time, Holder long since had moved back into the place that held so many of her kids’ earliest memories. A family friend bought it for his own use from Tootsie and Pa, but later offered Holder a lease.

Makayla was Holder’s niece — not by blood, but through the marriage of Holder’s half-brother, James Lee Holder of Liberty, to the teenager’s biological mother.

“Kayla” came seeking a haven from marital issues at home, said Rocky Smith.

“I knew James (Holder) and his wife were going through some challenges, and Makayla felt safe there,” Rocky said of Mary Ann Holder’s house, adding that he put the girl’s need for shelter above moral qualms about her living in the same house with 17-year-old Dylan.

“Next thing you know, they were girlfriend and boyfriend,” Rocky said, something that raised red flags for him. “I was 17 and Mary Ann was 15 when we got married. I had to talk to my son and give him the insight from how that affected me.”

Some of Holder’s neighbors looked on with concern. The house was lit up at all hours, people coming and going according to no apparent schedule, said Teresa Scott, who lives across the street.

“How on earth could she get those children, living the life she lived?” she asked last week, referring to Holder being guardian for so many kids. “I’m 75 years old and I have never seen a family such as this.”

The effect of an affair

Initial reports after the murders and suicide suggested the tragedy involved a recently ended love affair between Holder and Randy Lamb, a married man who served with her a few years back on the Pleasant Garden Community Center board of directors.

Not true, say Holder’s mother and friends. The affair ended at least 18 months ago, Frankie Holder said: “I know that for a fact because that’s how close me and my daughter were.”

“I want people to know Randy Lamb was not her boyfriend,” said Stokes, her boyfriend in the months leading up to her death. “I want them to know she had a man in her life that loved her, and it wasn’t him.”

Jennifer Lamb, Randy’s wife, declined to comment about anything related to the Nov. 20 tragedy, referring questions to a Greensboro lawyer who did not return phone calls.

Frankie Holder and several of Holder’s friends say the couple were harassing her with a threatened lawsuit stemming from the affair.

“She said, 'I was slapped with a $250,000 alienation of affection (lawsuit),’” Holder’s mom said of a conversation they had two days before the Sunday morning murders.

When Stokes went out to dinner that same Friday night with Holder and the children in her care, she “wasn’t herself” and finally told him about the lawsuit, Stokes said.

“She was crying. She was upset. And we talked. I know we talked for an hour and a half about this,” Stokes said. “I told her, you know, you don’t have to do this. They’ll never win this case.”

'It makes zero sense’

Her friend, Stacy Couch, thinks Holder feared the lawsuit because it could raise questions about her character, something that might prevent her from getting permanent custody of Beth’s children as she promised.

Her friends say they had no idea she gave the Lambs a check for $10,000 on Saturday, the day before the killings — a payment investigators revealed shortly after the tragedy, apparently aimed at heading off the lawsuit.

And when Stokes went swimming with Holder and the kids that Saturday afternoon at Grimsley High School, she seemed “a little tired” but not distraught like the night before, Stokes said. In fact, she bought $200 in groceries for her household during the day and seemed calm when they parted around 11:30 p.m., mere hours before the shootings, Stokes said.

It makes “zero sense” for a person to buy groceries, let alone cut someone a $10,000 check, while contemplating suicide and multiple homicides, Mark Couch said.

Yet he, Stacy Couch and Stokes acknowledge that unless some new wrinkle emerges, the evidence against their late friend is daunting — including the deputy who spotted her parked car that Sunday morning and apparently saw her take her own life.

Rocky Smith, grieving father, shares their skepticism about the official version of the tragedy.

“I have a hard time believing that’s how it went down,” he said. “But I know the Guilford County Sheriff’s Office — along with a lot of other agencies — is working hard putting it all together in a way where I can know what happened.

 “I don’t know that I’ll rest until I get that explanation.”

Staff librarian Diane Lamb contributed to this report.

Contact Taft Wireback at 373-7100 or taft.wireback@news-record.com
 

Accompanying Photos

Photo Caption: Hanaleigh Michelle Suttles (clockwise from top left), Makayla Lee Woods, Mary Ann Holder, Dylan Smith, Richard Brian “Ricky” Suttles and Zachary Lee “Zack” Smith.

Additional Photos

Comments

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Get A Clue

December 11, 2011 - 8:28 am EST

I wish--for the sake of family, friends, survivors and general readership--a reporter who is all-too-happy to splash someone's life across the pages of a paper for public consumption would actually do a little homework...and at least interview just one professional psychologist for some balance.
Of course "this doesn't make sense" to people grieving. Of course "this doesn't make sense" to people who have only read about it in the paper. And of course those who knew and loved her can't square what they want to believe with what happened. None of them have sufficient experience or professional backgrounds with mental health.
I sincerely hope this paper stops preying on the family and friends of the deceased and its general readership in this manner. Please invest the time necessary to interview mental health professionals and share useful, even healing information with your readers.

mythoughts2

December 11, 2011 - 9:41 am EST

It seems this was an interview with the family so if you dont want them to tell about the family then the family has to not talk to the paper.Not sue why you think its a new papers job to provide mental health professionals information on an interview with the family? Its not the papers job to 'heal' families its their job to report information.

brian444

December 11, 2011 - 10:08 am EST

This article contains facts, and thankfully avoids the bloviating quackery of "mental health professionals."

Panacea

December 11, 2011 - 10:21 am EST

Which just shows you know little about mental health professionals.

There's no way we can really know or understand what was in Mary Holder's mind that day, and I think a mental health professional would point that out.

What we do know is that stress can have tremendous impacts on a person's physical and mental health, and lead them to make decisions they normally would not make.

Rolling

December 11, 2011 - 11:11 am EST

There you go again. Making unsubstantiated leaps to tie this to a mental health issue.

Panacea

December 11, 2011 - 12:29 pm EST

I did no such thing.

There's a difference between stress impacting one's mental reasoning, and having a mental illness like schizophrenia. That's the point I'm making.

Rolling

December 11, 2011 - 1:27 pm EST

Exactly what percentage of schizophrenics commit homicide? Let me guess, you don't know? You just made another leap. Nice.

Panacea

December 11, 2011 - 4:50 pm EST

As a matter of fact, I do know. I am a nurse, remember.

Mentally ill persons are more prone to hurt themselves than other people; their suicide rate is twice that of their rate of violence against others. Treated schizophrenics are no more violent than the general population. It's in the acute psychotic state that a mentally ill person (schizophrenic or bi polar) is likely to become violent due to hallucinations. However, there is no indication Holder had a psychotic disorder.

There's a lot more to mental illness and mental health than psychosis, which is the point I am trying to make.

Rolling

December 11, 2011 - 9:58 am EST

Why do you want to put blame on this to those that suffer from mental health disorders? Sometimes people are just evil and angry. Don't automatically assume someone with a mental health disorder committed this crime. Most people with MH disorders don't commit crimes.

Panacea

December 11, 2011 - 10:22 am EST

No one has suggested Mary Holder had a mental health disorder. What Get a Clue said was a mental health professional could have shed some light on this situation . . . and he's right.

Rolling

December 11, 2011 - 11:06 am EST

Well, if Ms. Holder doesn't have a mental health disorder, how would it shed light by interviewing someone in the MH community? Why not interview all kinds of people, let's say a school teacher to explain the behavior? That would make as much sense.

No there is an implied connection in Get a Clue's comment. That is, connecting a community of people to a crime with no evidence. If it wasn't suggested, then why are they mentioning it? Why not mention something else wholly not suggested, like maybe the reporter could interview someone from NASA to explain the behavior?

Panacea

December 11, 2011 - 12:31 pm EST

*sigh*

Because people who don't have chronic mental health disorders like bi-polar disorder, schizophrenia, and the personality disorders STILL will sometimes suffer from short term mental health issues brought on by stress.

An interview with a mental health professional could have explained the differences for people like you, who do not understand them.

Rolling

December 11, 2011 - 1:37 pm EST

Bi-polar, schizophrenia and PD's have no higher correlation to homicide that any other population, so I'm unsure why you referenced those disorders. Perhaps you need to rethink this bigotry you are posting?

In addition, the majority of crimes committed, the VAST majority, are not committed by people with mental illness. That may be news to you, but you should check the facts.

Sigh.....Shakes head at the serial need to stereotype people.

brian444

December 11, 2011 - 2:17 pm EST

What, precisely, is the insight that a mental health professional with no connection to Holder could have shed on this situation? That people suffering stress will sometimes "suffer from mental health issues"? I don't know if I should believe you, since I don't have your credentials as a mental health professional, but let's stipulate that a real mental health professional would say exactly what you wish for him to say.

That tells us precisely nothing. Which mental health issues did Holder suffer from? Are we sure that her actions were the result of mental health issues? We wouldn't know, since as someone once pointed out, we'll never know what was in her mind that day. Either mental health professional can read minds from newspaper accounts, or they can't. You should pick one answer to that question and stick with it.

Panacea

December 11, 2011 - 4:58 pm EST

A mental health professional could:

1) Discuss the stressors in Holder's life and how they could impact her short term decision making
2) Discuss how people cope or fail to cope, and how the failure to cope can lead people to do things they would not normally do
3) Discuss how the community is reacting to this tragedy, and how the community's search for answers impact their own ability to grasp and cope with the consequences of these deaths.
4) Discuss why the family is reacting the way they are, and explain that they are not deluding themselves as to Mary Holder's real persona NOR impeding their own healing by their reaction to these events and the public's response.
5) Explain to the public that while a true answer to why this happened will never be found, the answers lie beyond simplistic notions of good and evil, OR the common misperceptions about what mental illness is all about.

I'm sure there is more a mental health professional can say, but this is enough for a good start.

The fact that Rolling cannot grasp what I am trying to say about mental health (for god's sake, we actually agree, but he does not see this) tells me that such an approach is desperately need.

Panacea

December 11, 2011 - 4:53 pm EST

Yes, I'm very much aware that severe mental ill persons are no more likely to be violent than anyone else. WILL you pay attention to what I am really saying?! I am NOT saying that Mary Holder had to have been mentally ill. I AM saying that because mental health is about more than the psychotic disorders, that a mental health professional could have in the reporting shed more light into the thought processes someone like Mary Holder could have had, and also on the processes that those left behind are having to face in the wake of these terrible events.

rooster8786

December 11, 2011 - 5:22 pm EST

"I AM saying that because mental health is about more than the psychotic disorders, that a mental health professional could have in the reporting shed more light into the thought processes someone like Mary Holder could have had..."
In other words, layman's terms, you are guessing, assuming, or gesticulating, what you think, based on YOUR experience, without ANY direct knowledge or contact, what this woman was thinking. That or you'd have someone else do the same thing.

Panacea

December 12, 2011 - 3:52 pm EST

rooster, I am not guessing or assuming anything. If you were actually reading what I have written you'd know that.

Please go back to first grade and tell the teacher you need to learn how to read.

mythoughts2

December 11, 2011 - 6:13 pm EST

Panacea thank you for your thoughts on this and all the information. I do think you are not going to get anywhere with a few people here, it just seems to keep 'rolling' around and around

Panacea

December 12, 2011 - 3:52 pm EST

Thanks. I appreciate the kind words :)

mythoughts2

December 11, 2011 - 9:31 am EST

This article seems to be telling a basic run down of the family but does not tell if there is a family history of mental illness. I think that is an important question that should also be answered.

Panacea

December 11, 2011 - 10:23 am EST

We don't know if the reporter asked that question or not.

mythoughts2

December 11, 2011 - 11:17 am EST

I think it should also be ask and answered, is there a family history of violence or suicide

Panacea

December 11, 2011 - 12:34 pm EST

The reporter can ask, that doesn't mean the family will answer or be truthful if they do answer.

The family is trying to get the public to stop demonizing Mary Holder. They're hurting, and the public response to her is making their pain worse. It doesn't matter if other people believe Holder deserves whatever she gets, they are trapped in their own world of hurt and they want it to stop. It's a perfectly normal and understandable reaction.

The reporter was clearly doing a personal interest story, and may have felt the question inappropriate.

Panacea

December 11, 2011 - 10:31 am EST

The natural reaction to a tragedy like this is to try and make some kind of sense of it, and that's what this family is trying to do. They are trying to make sense of the insensible.

Consider this statement: "It makes “zero sense” for a person to buy groceries, let alone cut someone a $10,000 check, while contemplating suicide and multiple homicides, Mark Couch said."

Mr. Couch is assuming Mary Holder was thinking past the moment. Most people do when they go about their day; they think about the chores that need doing, the places they're supposed to be. Most people live in a combination of the long and short term.

But sometimes, people live either in the past, in the future, or solely in the moment. That's a healthy reaction in some cases to problems a person is having that allows them to deal with the situation in a constructive manner. A person struggling to over come depression, for example, may use long term planning as a coping mechanism to look past the moment. Recovering alcoholics take everything day by day because their whole existence revolves around not taking that drink.

But sometimes those mechanisms don't work, or are used in an unhealthy way, which can lead people to impulsive acts they normally wouldn't commit.

Unfortunately, we will probably never really know why Mary Holder did what she did. I can speculate all I want, but no one can ever really say this is why Holder murdered five kids and killed herself.

I doubt Holder was mentally ill. I don't think she's evil hearted, even though she did evil things.

I think she was human, and all humans are inherently flawed in one way or another. Her flaws didn't open into cracks until the day she died, and we won't ever be able to explain why to everyone's satisfaction.

Rolling

December 11, 2011 - 11:08 am EST

Would being mentally ill explain her actions? 99% of mentally ill people don't commit homocide.

Panacea

December 11, 2011 - 12:37 pm EST

Rolling . . . you've missed the WHOLE point! What I'm saying is that we may never be able to explain why Mary Holder did this, and that she didn't need to be mentally ill in order to do this, nor would a mental illness really explain it.

Yes, most mentally ill people are NOT violent. I don't think she was mentally ill, anyway.

And that's what people can't grasp. They want an answer to why she did this. So they gravitate to one of two solutions.

She's mentally ill. She was crazy so she didn't know what she was doing.

OR

She's an evil monster who butchered her children with malice in her heart and rage at the cold cruel world.

Neither fits. We have to accept there IS no explanation.

Rolling

December 11, 2011 - 1:33 pm EST

Well, you seem to insist in various comments of tying up a group of people into this person's homicidal act. You do the mental health community a disservice by consistently positioning mental health issues and this woman.

One does not have to be mentally ill to commit a crime. True story.

Panacea

December 11, 2011 - 5:00 pm EST

*headbang*

Rolling, you do not understand what I am trying to say at all.

I am trying to explain that mental illness does NOT explain what Mary Holder did. I'm trying to explain that Holder SHOULD NOT be tied in with the severely mentally ill . . . which is what a lot of commentators on these boards have been saying since this story broke!

mythoughts2

December 11, 2011 - 11:19 am EST

Panacea I think that was very well said.

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