Safety reason for park discount : News-Record.com : Greensboro & the Triad's most trusted source for local news and analysis

GREENSBORO — Last weekend’s Occupy Greensboro protest, hosted at downtown’s Festival Park, has set off a community argument about who can use the parks for such demonstrations and how much they should pay.

At issue: City officials gave the Occupy protest organizers a discount on the rental of the park, cutting the daily rental rate from $700 to $200.

Some conservatives — including members of the tea party-affiliated political action committee Conservatives for Guilford County — have argued that by cutting the rate, the city forced taxpayers to subsidize the protest.

They also complained that C4GC, as the group calls itself, wasn’t given the option of a discount when it inquired about renting the park for an event months ago.

The discount isn’t something the city usually does, said Assistant City Manager Mike Speedling. His office helped negotiate it because officials were worried about a large downtown protest on the same weekend when police and city staff already were stretched thin.

“We had the N.C. A&T homecoming, which is always a huge event,” Speedling said. “We also had a firefighter memorial service on Saturday and the president’s visit coming the next week, which was going to tie up some of our resources in planning for security.”

The Occupy movement began as a protest of finance industry fraud and economic inequality on New York’s Wall Street and has gone international. At many of the demonstrations major streets, squares and buildings have been shut down. A number have ended in arrests when protesters clashed with police trying to remove them from spaces they were occupying.

Not knowing where 600 protesters would march or gather seemed dangerous given everything else going on in the city, Speedling said.

“We thought it would be best if we could find a place for them that would be safe for everyone, a contained space we could secure, where we could control the crowd. And the organizers were good about working with us on that.”

The city suggested Festival Park, often used for large community events and outdoor concerts. But the Occupy organizers said the $700-per-day price tag was a bit steep. Speedling said in the interest of public safety, his office brokered a discount. The group agreed to pick up its own trash and didn’t use the outdoor sound system, which cut some associated costs and staffing.

Some of the Occupy protesters disagreed with renting the space in the first place. They said the park was paid for with their tax dollars, and the city should have offered it for free.

“I wish we could do that,” said Greg Jackson, director of Parks & Recreation for the city.

Jackson said tax dollars do pay for the parks, and residents can use them for free. But the costs of maintaining the parks are heavily offset by usage fees for such things as tennis and golf at certain parks and rental fees from groups that want exclusive use of Festival Park on a weekend.

“Our entire budget is roughly $18 million,” Jackson said. “We recoup about $4 million from the fees we charge every year. So the people who are using the parks most heavily are subsidizing things like trash pickup, electricity, staffing and security.”

Jackson said the parks could be made completely free, even for groups who want to hold large events there, but it would mean a significant tax increase.

Contact Joe Killian at 373-7023 or joe.killian@news-record.com

ravencottage

October 22, 2011 - 7:36 am EDT

Just before Speedling is forced to resign for making this stupid decision he should have a check cut in the amount of $500 as a refund to the C4GC. Better yet the $500 should be taken from his last pay check.

Joe Killian

October 22, 2011 - 8:22 am EDT

As previously reported, C4GC decided not to use the park when they found out the price was $700 a day.

So they wouldn't get a refund.

The group has subsequently said they'd like a discount when next they inquire about it, though.

Jacked Rabbit

October 22, 2011 - 8:44 am EDT

and any other promoter who sees this story will want the same thing. now that i know i can block off the park and do whatever i want for $200 if i pick up my own trash and don't use the PA system, i'd be inclined to rent the park now.

October 22, 2011 - 9:36 am EDT

They can ask.

But no one from the city said they'd give the same discount to anyone who did those things.

They said that based on the circumstances of that particular weekend and the potential for public safety problems arising from their having been stretched so thin, they were inclined to strike such a deal.

Laura

October 24, 2011 - 10:32 am EDT

All you free-market fanatics should be applauding!

This group, like any group, has the same rights as anyone to negotiate a rate with the city -- or to negotiate a deal with any private owner. Corporations do it every day. Instead, you are whining that they got a good deal.

Moreover, the C4G group was not denied a low rate on the basis of their politics, nor was the Occupy group given a good rate based on their politics. How diligently did C4 negotiate? Was their event coinciding with another large downtown event? Did it even approach the same size as the Occupy protest? Sounds like more childish sour grapes from tea partiers.

Traveler

October 22, 2011 - 6:45 pm EDT

My understanding is that $700 or $200 was for one day, Saturday the 15th.

Since then they have been camping in the old YWCA facilities, which borders Festival Park.

I am not sure exactly who owns the property and what kind of deal they have with the occupy crowd. The property was owned by YWCA. I think they went bankrupt a couple of years ago. I know Hagan Properties, Senator Hagan's family business, is the listing agent. They could probably tell who the owner is and what kind of financial agreement they have with the occupy crowd. The protestors have been there about a week. I have seen them use the old Y facilities, I assume for washing, bathrooms, storage, etc. I would guess the regular price an owner would charge would be $500 a week and up.

marcusk

October 22, 2011 - 7:39 am EDT

So let me get this straight. The Occupy Greensboro mob couldn't afford to spend $1.17 per participant, but could spend more than that just making a sign to carry? This article is the usual hypocrisy of the left and those who support them. the excuses for giving a break to this group sound like it is straight from the Democrat playbook.If these groups are so representative(?) would there be even a concern about safety? Just another example of the unfair, divisive and discriminatory attitude of the democrat dominated City Government. I am sure no one would have thought it unfair to the taxpayers if the same deal had been given to a conservative group.... yeah right.... But, I stand corrected, the Media supports the Occupiers and will cover for them... my bad.

Panacea

October 22, 2011 - 8:43 am EDT

They didn't say they couldn't afford it. They said the price was steep.

You can make signs from scraps in the garage.

No hypocrisy here.

October 22, 2011 - 8:17 am EDT

Marcus:

You're reading the media that broke this story. No one - C4GC included - would have known about this had I not asked about it, found out about it and chosen to report it. And I've now reported it three times, in varying degrees of depth.

Other outlets that are writing about or reporting it: zero.

Asking the city employees responsible for this decision how it was made and asking them to account for it: that's what we call watchdog journalism. The fact that you don't like their answers? That's not possible unless you hear their answers.

Armed with the knowledge of what happened and the logic used to make the decision, you're now better able to refute it and oppose the decision if you so choose. And you can do it from a more informed position. No one can accuse you of not knowing the full story or not having considered the other side's point of view.

You're welcome.

October 22, 2011 - 9:14 am EDT

Have you asked about the police security. At least one, most times, two or more, city police officers have been providing security for a week now. That's bound to be cost to $2,000,if not more.

Can you find out what that cost is, and if the occupy people are helping defray that cost.

October 22, 2011 - 9:43 am EDT

Will do a tally when the whole thing's done.

Gemini

October 22, 2011 - 1:49 pm EDT

Those officers are performing surveillance on duty. They are diverted from their regular assignment for a few hours to keep watch.

October 22, 2011 - 4:54 pm EDT

Whatever you want to call it, "survilance", "special assignment", whatever. Someone is paying them... How much is the cost, and who is paying for that, just the taxpayers, or is the occupy crowd helping with that expense?

I also haven't heard what the occupy crowd is doing to make good the lost wages and tips for the staff of Europa. I would argue that those lost wages and tips should also be included in the cost run up by the occupy event.

Theo

October 22, 2011 - 11:33 pm EDT

Where do you people come from? "Surveillance on duty" & "Diverted from their regular assignments for a few hours to keep watch" This shows me how out of touch you really are!

October 24, 2011 - 10:46 am EDT

You are missing the point. The protestors are entitled to police protection just as much as anyone in the city. When a private club opens, the police step up surveillance in those neighborhoods too. Nobody goes door-to-door to find out how much taxes neighbors are paying before assigning police protection.

You are defining citizenship to mean practices that give no inconvenience to anyone, anywhere at anytime.Which means nobody would ever stand up for freedom and equality anywhere, at anytime.

October 22, 2011 - 8:40 am EDT

dang, marcus....is it time for another tea party rally so we can walk around with our guns scare up some of them minorities? Nov. 3rd is right around the corner. let's throw us a big ol' party! seriously though, deals get brokered everyday. should i get a refund because the guy who bought the condo next to me got a better deal? According to you, sure! what's fair is fair right? so we both pay the same price to occupy space even though deals were made months apart...hmmm that sounds a little... dare i say the words... socialist, marxist, communist, etc. And the hypocrisy continues... these are the days of our lives. *cue theme music*

countryboy

October 22, 2011 - 9:45 am EDT

Go back in your rabbit hole.

"They said the park was paid for with their tax dollars, and the city should have offered it for free". I doubt the collective taxes from this group would pay for much of a park....and since I-40 was paid for with your taxes, may I kindly suggest setting up your tents there. The protesters desire equity of return without equity of input. When that happens, America is doomed.

wctbl?

October 22, 2011 - 10:04 am EDT

"dare i say the words... socialist, marxist, communist, etc. And the hypocrisy continues"

fisher

October 22, 2011 - 12:53 pm EDT

Forget about I-40. There's some underused space up on White Street.

October 23, 2011 - 2:02 am EDT

They were in Festival Park one day. I understand that cost the occupy people $200. Since then, they have been camping in the old YWCA grounds next door. I do not know who owns it. I think the YWCA went bankrupt, or disavowed the property, or something like that. Hagan Properties, Senator Hagan's family business is the leasing agent. I have no idea what their deal is. In anyone is interested, I am sure Hagan Properties would be happy to share that information.

polaroid

October 22, 2011 - 9:52 am EDT

Just for your info I asked and was told the GPD Officers blocking YWCA Dr. were not paid but on special assignment. Which means they were not fighting crime and the force was and is down two officers. So take that taxpayers blame your city goverment for that decision.

October 22, 2011 - 12:22 pm EDT

Even though the police are on "special assignment", I am sure someone is paying them. Additionally cost of police cars, etc.

Joe Killian said he would try to get a full accounting of cost to taxpayers.

It seems like the biggest loser is John Rudy with Europa Cafe, next door. They have lost a lot of business. That's wrong. Unfortunately, nothing can be done.

It would be interesting if Joe were to interview the owners and staff at Europa about how much this has hurt them economically. I know most of the staff live on tips mostly.

I would suggest to the occupy people that they should reimburse those people for the lost income the occupy crowd has cost. The occupy crowd seems to be GREEDY to have their event without paying attention to the hardships it is causing the workers at Europa. Wait a minute, isn't protesting GREED what they are all about.

debbie7

October 22, 2011 - 8:23 pm EDT

You people are idiots. Do you even realize what your are saying and suggesting. I guess you folks prefer for all americans to no longer have the right to protest or gather. Or better yet, let's pretend they have this right but put in conditions that will prevent them from exercising these rights. We are surly loosing the country.

October 23, 2011 - 10:28 am EDT

What I am saying is that everyone has the right to peaceful assembly.

At the same time, they should not use that right to cause others to be hurt.

newkid

October 22, 2011 - 11:35 am EDT

Where, in this day and age, can the people exercise their rights to peacefully assemble? The government seems to think the Constitution allows requiring parade permits and charging fees to use public property. Whether you are a Tea Party supporter or an Occupy Wall Street fan — or somewhere in the middle — you've got to be concerned about how difficult it has become to actually use our rights in today's environment.

October 22, 2011 - 4:49 pm EDT

Newkid....you may exercise your rights anyplace you please....as long as it does not interfere with the rights of others. Stand on the sidewalk and preach, just don't block others. Stand in a park and protest anything you want....just don't infringe on others rights. Again, your are guaranteed your rights...you are not guaranteed a forum or and audience. That was Germany several years ago.

October 22, 2011 - 8:24 pm EDT

Absolutely! You are so right!!!!!

October 22, 2011 - 10:31 pm EDT

not really...in GSO much of the sidewalks are private property. And while an INDIVIDUAL may exercise his/her rights, gatherings of GROUPS are strictly restricted (parade permits, park rental permits, restrictions on gathering on public property, etc.)

October 23, 2011 - 2:06 am EDT

It is easy to assemble. Clubs, businesses, and organizations assembly by hundreds. If you are looking for a public place to assemble for a political meeting, I suggest calling the city liabary reference. They can usually hook you up with liabrary meeting space for a very low cost, if any cost. Done all the time.

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