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Sales tax hike may go to voters

Thursday, July 29, 2010
(Updated 1:18 pm)

GREENSBORO — With budget season behind them and debt payments looming, Guilford County commissioners are dusting off a perennial discussion: the possibility of a sales tax increase.

“I think we’re going to have to look at all options,” Chairman Melvin “Skip” Alston said. “Nothing can be off the table.”

He said residents realize what the county is facing and know something has to be done.

“We’re facing about a $40 million debt service next year plus the $9 million in operational expenses for the new county jail,” Alston said. “Our employees also haven’t had a cost-of-living increase in their salaries for the last two years. So in the next year we’re going to have to look at everything. A sales tax increase may be something we have to try.”

It’s been tried before. The state agreed to let counties put a quarter-cent sales tax on the ballot in 2007, and Guilford County put the option before the public the next year. But voters rejected it in the May and November elections in 2008.

Now that 15 of the state’s 100 counties have passed the increase, a number of commissioners say they would support trying again — under certain conditions.

“I wouldn’t have a bit of problem voting to put a sales tax on the ballot for people to vote on,” said Commissioner Billy Yow. “Provided we could get an agreement from the state that if we say we’re going to use this money to alleviate our debt, they don’t wind up taking it and putting us right back in the position we’re in now.”

Yow said he would also like the commissioners to agree that if they raise the sales tax, they’ll avoid raising property taxes — and to tell residents how long the sales tax move will keep higher property taxes at bay.

Alston said he’s not sure that would be possible.

“If we did a quarter-cent sales tax increase it would generate us about $15 million,” he said. “That wouldn’t be enough to stave off a property tax increase, but that is the last resort. I’d want it to be a small increase, if it happened — two or three cents.”

Alston said he understands no one wants a tax increase, property or sales. But when voters approved more than $500 million in bonds in 2008, they made some sort of tax increase inevitable, he said.

He said he and other commissioners wanted people to have a chance to regroup when the economy became worse than anyone had anticipated.

Commissioners Kirk Perkins and John Parks have said they would support putting an increase before voters.

This week, Commissioner Carolyn Coleman, who has opposed an increase, said she’s willing to consider it.

“I do think that a sales tax increase can be regressive, that it can hurt the poor and the elderly,” she said.

“But the sentiment I’ve heard from people is they would prefer a sales tax increase over property tax. Many people who have property but are on a fixed income would be more affected by having to pay a big lump sum.”

Contact Joe Killian at 373-7023 or joe.killian@news-record.com

Accompanying Photos

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Comments

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kurgun

July 29, 2010 - 3:32 am EDT

Well if there's an increase, people will simply look elsewhere to shop. It's already too high, all things of non food I buy at online stores that don't charge a sales tax and have free shipping. Alternatively I can also buy from states that don't have a sales tax from friends that live there and simply pay the shipping cost when they send it to me. All manner of ways to avoid a sales tax.

Katbyrd

July 29, 2010 - 6:33 am EDT

“Our employees also haven’t had a cost-of-living increase in their salaries for the last two years. So in the next year we’re going to have to look at everything. A sales tax increase may be something we have to try.” - Skip Alston
Well boo-frickin'-hoo. At least you HAVE a job, Skipper. That's really what the sales tax hike is about, isn't it Skip?

Mick

July 29, 2010 - 7:09 am EDT

I am making less... a lot less ... than I did 2 years ago. You will get no sympathy there from folks.

Panacea

July 29, 2010 - 9:25 am EDT

Skip just wants to avoid higher property taxes; they'd be a big hit for him with all his rental properties.

StopSpendingMyMoney

July 29, 2010 - 9:28 am EDT

THANK YOU THANK YOU!! I am so glad you commented on the Cost of Living Increase Comment. Hey - Skip -- I am making 1/3 less money than I was a year ago. I got layed off from a job with IBM after 12 years of 80 hour weeks and devotion to that company. I was very happy to accept a position here locally in the Triad at 35K less money than I was making -- just to have a job. I am grateful to be working when so many people aren't.

SKIP -- the cost of living hasn't increased in the last 2 years. Gas prices are down (not near $4 a gal) food prices are down, housing prices are down....why would anyone need a COLA????? Stop Spending My Hard Earned Money !!

swerdna

July 29, 2010 - 6:51 am EDT

"But when voters approved more than $500 million in bonds in 2008, they made some sort of tax increase inevitable, he said."

THIS is exactly what many of us kept saying, but those wanting the bonds kept saying our taxes wouldn't increase because they were bonds! People, until this economy improves, we need to DO WITHOUT non-essentials. This means things like parks and rec funding, swim centers, etc. that can be tabled until the economy is better.

As for the poor workers who Skip says haven't had a raise in 2 years, "my heart pumps Pepsi" for them. At least they have a job and they had a raise 2 years ago. It's been so long for some of us, we can't even remember when we last had a raise! Again, time for EVERYONE to cut to the bare bones, do without, and stop the excessive government spending by voting out those who seem to think the taxpayers are an unending source of funding their newest idea.

Panacea

July 29, 2010 - 9:28 am EDT

The Commissioners aren't talking about themselves. They're talking about county employees: the people who do the day to day work on running the county.

Although, in our current deflationary environment, I don't buy the need for a COLA increase either.

swerdna

July 29, 2010 - 10:54 am EDT

I fully realize who Skip was talking about! Time for EVERYone to bite the bullet.

Mick

July 29, 2010 - 7:16 am EDT

The point is well made but Parks and Rec and The Swim Center aren't County. I understand a small increase may be required. Look to cuts first, temp consumption tax next, perm sales tax then property tax last. It is a tough time but we will get through this. But I am tired of hearing about not getting raises for x nunber of years. MANY are making less and some are unemp,oyed. Get a grip on that point.

swerdna

July 29, 2010 - 12:25 pm EDT

You are correct, however I was merely using those bonds as an example of non-essential spending of taxpayer's money. Whether it's city or county, the taxpayer will eventually have to foot the bill.

Bosco

July 29, 2010 - 8:08 am EDT

A double "Amen" to all of the above. Quit spending, quit spending, quit spending. Better yet, sell something, a lot of something[s].

szyzygy

July 29, 2010 - 8:12 am EDT

time to start looking for someplace else to live! Sadly, it seems that everyone in America these days loves to spend money they don't have. Maybe I'll just do more internet shopping.
I bet I don't even use any of the stuff this tax hike is going to be used for.

Also, many of these bonds are "2/3s" bonds, which means that once you give the gummit the ok to spend the money, they can continue to borrow 2/3s of the repaid principle at any time in the future. So instead of being in debt by just $1M on a bond, you are really giving them much more to spend. And they don't even have to ask you if it's ok first!

casper

July 29, 2010 - 9:02 am EDT

During the whole budget process last month these Liberal Parasites had the chance to cut spending. They chose not to cut spending and now want the working class to carry thier fiscal irresponsibility. It is time to get rid of people like Skip Alston, Kirk Perkins and Carolyn Coleman. Remember, it only took the governer of Virginia six months to take a budget deficit and turn it into a budget surplus. They simply cut spending..........

d_random

July 29, 2010 - 9:03 am EDT

I think we should have the opportunity to vote again on the bonds. Do we really need a $20 million dollar swimming pool?

Mick

July 29, 2010 - 10:10 am EDT

Again, not County.

stafford5465

July 29, 2010 - 9:06 am EDT

Government jobs are way ahead of the private sector. No raises are warranted at this time. Certain floors of the jail mothballed for a few years. We do not have enough inmates to use the entire facility. Look at our taxes compared with other counties in the Piedmont. Ours should be lower because of economies of scale. In fact, they are on the high end. We still have people that do not or will not understand that we are not a rich county and we must limit spending.

jpaul67

July 29, 2010 - 9:09 am EDT

But wait, Bev already increased the state sales tax (temporarily) by 1% and now G'boro looking at raising their sales tax even more? When will they realize that you have to figure out that eventually you have to "pay" for what you spend. Sales tax is a regressive tax with the heavier burden on the lower income earners. This goes further to show what a failed ideology liberalism actually is. It keeps the poorer people poor by making them continue to rely on the government instead of promoting self sufficiency and allowing an environment that will help them get off of the government payroll (welfare). If the people were financially strong providing for themselves then they would want/need/rely on a smaller government and one that would dictate how they live their own lives. But that would mean the end of the liberal control in Washington and there would be no more Demoncratic Party! So it makes sense...the Dem's need to keep people be reliant on them so they keep getting their votes. Govn't cant give to someone that it has not first taken from someone else! You cant make an economy strong by spending your way through and raising taxes during a recession!!!! I have to live on a budget so why cant the government?

Panacea

July 29, 2010 - 9:50 am EDT

Your logic is flawed.

Yes, sales taxes are regressive. But they weren't enacted for the purpose of keeping the poor poor, or the rich rich. They were simply seen as another revenue stream, one that has a long history in this country.

We will do far better in fixing our problems if we quit with the conspiracy theories.

Some of the Commissioners want to avoid a property tax increase purely on ideology (Yow). Others, for personal financial interest (Alston). The comment in the article that elderly with property would be hurt more by a property tax increase is disingenuous: it would only increase the total tax bill by a few dollars a year, and since they may already pay in a "lump sum", they're already doing this.

Truth is, we need to do both: increase the sales tax AND the property tax. We have to do this to cover the increasing costs of our debt. We can B&M all we want about "cutting spending", but the bond are already approved, and servicing that debt is where most of the money raised by new taxes will go. Services have already been cut to the bone, there's just not much left to cut.

If we realistically want to cut spending, here's how:

1. Quit approving bonds . . . that's on the voters to use common sense and remember we have to pay for that debt.
2. Quit doing stupid things that end us up in court, like the idiocy with the GPD (yes, I know that's city, but the principle is the same).
3. Make county government more open and transparent. This has several benefits. One, it keeps the county out of court defending its practices. Two, people who understand how money comes in and goes out will be better able to keep the Commissioners on their toes with what they do to run Guilford County.
4. Remember that a lot of the welfare people like to complain about is actually CORPORATE welfare. Stop giving "incentives" (which are really tax givebacksies) to corporations. The ones who really want to come here (like American Express) will come anyway. The ones who don't, won't. They're really no loss . . . remember what a fiasco Dell has been with incentives.

Remember the differences in spending between the federal, state, county, and city levels. If you want to put pressure to cut certain types of services, know who pays for it, and address spending concerns to the right place. Generic "cut spending!" doesn't tell anyone what specifically TO cut, or account for who will be hurt by loss of services, and what the consequences of that loss will be. I'm not saying don't cut spending. I am saying, think it through.

scribonz

July 29, 2010 - 9:53 am EDT

Guilford County citizens voted for this huge debt when they approved bonds for schools and a new jail totalling more than a half Billion dollars. The debt is not going away, the county budget has been slashed for the last two years to pay the debt service. The question is do we raise property tax or do we look for alternatives. Guilford County is a shopping mecca. People from other places travel to shop here. It would make sense for us to ask them to contribute in a slightly higher sales tax so that we don't have to continue to raise the property tax on over strapped property owners.

johnodrake

July 29, 2010 - 10:12 am EDT

You know - I could agree except on two points: 1. If sales taxes go up, the shopping volume may well go down - actually diminishing revenues. 2. If taxes are raised, I'm not sure the revenue (if there were net revenue) would be used for debt service.

The taxes people pay are going to significantly increase in January '11 if the Congress fails to act, as I bet they will.

Abruti

July 29, 2010 - 10:06 am EDT

If they are going to raise taxes to pay for bond debt, I support a sales tax increase. All voters who voted to pass these bonds need to feel the pain and not just relegate that pain to property owners. Maybe they will make the connection.

johnodrake

July 29, 2010 - 10:13 am EDT

I wouldn't hold my breath.

johnodrake

July 29, 2010 - 10:08 am EDT

The solution is simple. Do what the folks do when we run out of money: STOP SPENDING!

newkid

July 29, 2010 - 11:06 am EDT

Perhaps we could transform the new jail into a downtown hotel ;-)

timflowers

July 29, 2010 - 1:23 pm EDT

1. County workers don't need a raise. Government jobs already have enough perks such as great benefits and retirement packages that private sector workers don't have. A government job shouldn't be the best job available.
2. A sales tax increase of the size proposed really wouldn't be noticed by most consumers and in fact we'd probably forget about it within a month.
3. Spending needs to be cut, but every commissioner and every department manager has his "pet" projects that are protected in one way or the other. Some of those things are going have to face cuts as well.
4. As for the term "parasite liberals" that one commenter used, politicians from both sides only want to tax us and control us. Any benefits we get are secondary to taxing and controlling. However, I can say that in my decades of life, my income and quality of life (as well as the nations) have always been better under Democratic rule than Republican rule. Democrats like to spend money, but Republican policies throw us into recessions time and again. Republicans want to cut government spending but only the things that average working class citizens benefit from...they keep the pork flowing to the war industry and to corporate welfare.

swerdna

July 29, 2010 - 8:27 pm EDT

"Spending needs to be cut, but every commissioner and every department manager has his "pet" projects that are protected in one way or the other."

This is certainly true on the FEDERAL level as well.

"However, I can say that in my decades of life, my income and quality of life (as well as the nations) have always been better under Democratic rule than Republican rule."

So glad obama's stimulus is working for you! Millions of Americans (10% or so unemployed) would disagree with you. For those of us fortunate to have a job (even though pay cuts have brought wages down for some of us to a level or 3 or more years ago), we find ourselves working harder (due to job cuts) for less money with the certain anticipation of obama taking more and more of our money to spend on his little experiments. The people obama wants to penalize for having too much money are the ones with money to INVEST and create jobs. So far, obama's "trickle UP" economy isn't doing too well. Of course I realize you're not aware of this since your "income and quality of life" are apparently not the norm. I sincerely hope your lifestyle continues because you, too, may find yourself a paycheck away from the situation many are in.

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