Sheriff's report on fights riles board : News-Record.com : Greensboro & the Triad's most trusted source for local news and analysis

GREENSBORO — The debate over law enforcement in schools increased Thursday after the Guilford County Sheriff’s Office sent out a news release highlighting three fights at Eastern Guilford High School that resulted in several arrests this week .

Several members of the Guilford County Board of Education took issue with the news release at their meeting on Thursday night.

The issue was not on the agenda, but it came up while the school board heard a presentation about how school officials intend to improve the 10 schools deemed low performing by the state.

Some of those schools are trying to curb the number of out-of-school suspensions. Some board members said they worry that means principals will let students get away with more.

Other board members said schools should look for alternatives to suspension.

It was at that point that school board Vice Chairman Amos Quick hit on the issues of school resource officers and the use of Tasers by those officers.

“We’ve gone from suspending them to mild shocks of 50,000 volts. What’s next? The National Guard is still available,” Quick said.

During a break, Quick questioned the timing of the sheriff’s news release when the debate about officers and Tasers in schools is under discussion.

“It’s interesting at the time these discussions have become more involved that this document was produced,” he said.

The sheriff’s office sends out news releases about notable incidents of crime, but there have not been regular releases about arrests at schools.

Eastern High Principal Greggory Slate said all three fights were connected to a fight last weekend at a Greensboro party attended by more than 100 people, including many Eastern students.

Slate said he made his staff aware of the situation Monday morning after getting a warning from Greensboro police. Slate also requested additional support from the sheriff’s office.

Additional deputies were on campus all this week, Slate said.

The fights are not gang related, according to Slate.

“We have some kids that run around with their friends but no recognized gangs,” Slate said.

School board members have debated the use of school resource officers and whether they should carry Tasers for several months now. The issue has divided the school board.

Lisa Clapp, whose son is a freshman at Eastern High, said parents are worried.

“Kids are sending text messages (to their parents) saying, 'I’m afraid,’ ” she said.

Clapp told board members that the last thing they should be considering is replacing law enforcement officers with private security guards.

“SROs provide safety and discipline on our campuses each and every day,” she said.

During a break in the meeting, board member Garth Hebert defended Sheriff BJ Barnes, who met with the school board several weeks ago with representatives from the High Point and Greensboro police departments.

“He was publicly chewed out by members of the school board. It was suggested we didn’t need SROs because they were out to hang kids, and this shows that we do, and I support BJ,” Hebert said.

During the debate, school board Chairman Alan Duncan took the news release to Jill Wilson, the school board’s attorney. It appeared the two were discussing the news release, but Duncan did not say what they spoke about when he returned to the dais.

Contact J. Brian Ewing at 373-7351 or brian.ewing@news-record.com

bcparsons

February 26, 2010 - 3:38 am EST

those opposed to the tasers better hope they are kept. otherwise offending students may be shot.

buzzman

February 26, 2010 - 3:48 am EST

You are exactly correct, but they aren't smart enough to realize that.

whybother

February 27, 2010 - 11:50 am EST

I think it is time we have a moratorium on having children. Parents, teachers, and administrators you are not doing it right.

February 26, 2010 - 3:47 am EST

Kudos to the Sheriff's Dept for the news release! It's time the public knows what is going on with all the hooligans and drug dealers in the public schools. Quick and his cronies want to keep it quiet because the majority of the problems are created by black students. Talk to folks who are at the schools if you don't believe what I'm saying.
If Quick et al would spend some time having a serious talk with those black students instead of cuddling them, some progress could be made. But instead, these folks won't accept reality and blame everything on others.
And, of course, Quick seized the opportunity to get on his soapbox about the tasers.
Surprised this article doesn't have some comments from Deena Hayes. Maybe she's laying low because of all her hotel publicity!

Iwonder

February 26, 2010 - 4:49 am EST

The police need to do a report to the public everyday!!

JDAS

February 26, 2010 - 6:17 am EST

Buzzman, You don't really know what you are talking about. You see children as hooligans instead of children. I taught all levels and races of children in high school until I retired. I seldom had to break up a fight because I refused to allow them to get out of hand in the first place. I treated them fairly and consistently and they respected me. Every new teacher has to learn that if you bully kids, they will bully back and make your life miserable. If you are kind and considerate and set the example for your classroom, even troublemaker kids will work with you. I taught vocational classes and I once had two "willie M" (Will He Murder) diagnosed kids in my class at the same time, and we all got along fine. Having police bully kids in school is wrong simple as that. Its a cheap fix to keep the principals and school boards from facing their responsibility of caring for and educating the kids in their charge.

eyesnot

February 26, 2010 - 7:37 am EST

JDAS, THANK YOU! You use your mind instead of excuses to resolve issues that start at home. I find it pathetic the number of nazi finger pointers hell bent on stopping everything from Woolworth shoppers to those nasty drug dealers (probably their own children, if the statistics are correct). Always someone else, never me. No sirree, Imma good christian soldier sunday schooled in all ways hypocritical. It's pathetic we allow outside influences to up the ante on counter actions, when we could just teach our children the right way to begin with. You CANNOT convince me that kids are any different today than in years past.

thirstytarheel

February 26, 2010 - 12:41 pm EST

"You CANNOT convince me that kids are any different today than in years past." They may not be any different, but how do you explain WHY we need law enforcement officers to patrol the schools these days,and years ago it would have been unheard of to have an officer stationed in a school. What's changed? How do you explain it? If the report from the Sheriff's office is accurate why the uproar? And one more thing its interesting you can hear or read about robberies and break ins and the media will give a complete description of the vehicle they are driving, but the description of the suspects is very general. Why, if its known, do they not mention the suspects race? Is it not politically correct to give a full description any more? Perhaps the N & R editors could use this as an opportunity to educate the masses.

BROWNS SUMMIT SCOTT

February 26, 2010 - 9:14 am EST

buzzman, I agree to blame all problems on black students is incorrect. I appreciate your services a s a teacher. I graduated from NE in 1989. My oldest daughter attended the same school 20 years later. It is not the same. I was in the school system that had paddlings and quick suspensions, and BEFORE the forced merger. We as students knew there were consequences, and it made a huge difference. Yes we had some fights but NEVER like this. Yes some kids did drugs, but not toting 7 ounces of marijuanna, and already collecting 1900 cash in sales to boot. When/if you got in trouble at school, when you got home the punishment was worse or as bad, now the parents blame the school straight up and defend what their children did. Are you aware that schools dont suspend students for the same things they were suspended for 20 years ago? Are you aware as a teacher, if a student is unruly and you send them to the office, they are sent almost right back to you after a stern lecture (often times the same student 2 to 3 times a week gets that harsh, be good heres a hug "guidance"). I agree also that teachers should show students respect, but let me ask you, if you caught a student disrupting class, and said "Johnny return to your seat", or "johnny no talking please", and his reaponse was "F you old man" would you give Johnny that coveted respect? To get respect you must give respect. Believe me, it happens daily in GCS schools.

rogerwx

February 26, 2010 - 9:15 am EST

SROs bullying kids, my butt. I taught in Guil. Co. for 31 years. Putting a policeman/sheriff in the schools was a great move. It would have been even better if the principal of my school had not tried to prevent them from doing their job. She feared for the bad publicity. Teachers being unable to discipline due to the administration(on all levels) focusing on numbers is the biggest reason the schools have been so " dumbed down". Numbers disproportionate in the areas of sex and race, duh, let me think. The dropout/suspension rate should be higher. That would allow those who want to learn in the proper environment to do so.

February 27, 2010 - 6:44 am EST

This is quite a lot of bull. All kids start school wanting to learn and be a part of things. However, as they progress through the system, many are excluded and culled by the schooling processes themselves, and this happens especially with the tracking that goes on in middle schools where teachers and counselors identify and put kids into groups...winner groups and "loser" groups. If you are a kid who is dumped into the loser group, you begin to hate school from that time on. The overall intent with this tracking is to create the different tier levels in our society, and oftentimes it has little to do with the ability of children to succeed, but, instead, is intended to confirm notions of the superiority of one group or another as being of the "elite" class or the "right" race etc.

Folks, get it in your heads that schools are not presently there to serve all children. I attended a school wide teachers meeting where the principal stood and told us that not all children or people should succeed or were intended to succeed...and this was my boss.

Public education is there to support the system that has control of the government at any given time, and if you believe otherwise, you are mistaken.

Right now, our government has a monumental war on terror effort intended to keep many young people employed in the military building our empire around the world. At home, we are making jobs by having a huge war on terror effort that is very much like our Cold War against the Soviet Union of time past. This WOT is being waged so our contractors can make huge sums of money and the public can be kept distracted from the fact that our economy is in decline. A climate of fear of the chosen "enemy" must be maintained in order for us to to this. So the public is told to "be afraid. Be very afraid" of everything, and this now appears to include our children.

Why do you think every high school now has a JROTC program. We are presently educating for our present WOT policies here at home and around the world?

February 27, 2010 - 8:01 am EST

Sounds like JDAS should relocate to a communist country!

oh good grief

February 26, 2010 - 2:57 pm EST

JDAS said, " I treated them fairly and consistently and they respected me. Every new teacher has to learn that if you bully kids, they will bully back and make your life miserable. If you are kind and considerate and set the example for your classroom, even troublemaker kids will work with you. I taught vocational classes and I once had two "willie M" (Will He Murder) diagnosed kids in my class at the same time, and we all got along fine."

At first blush you have certainly painted yourself to be quite the sensitive educator with all of the answers.

At second blush you revealed a bit too much about your "INsensitive" side: ". . . I once had two "willie M" (Will He Murder) diagnosed kids in my class at the same time . . . ."

Were you the "educator" in the teachers' lounge who coined the "Will He Murder" phrase?

You can deny coining that phrase, but you can't deny using it here in print. Obviously your brain holds that disrespectful phrase and you are not ashamed to share it with others. It must have been quite a challenge for you to maintain your veneer of "respectful" educating on a daily basis.

novel

February 26, 2010 - 3:30 pm EST

Thanks, ogg, for your comments. I had never heard the "Will He Murder" phrase used in conjunction with the "Willie M" designation and wondered if it was just me being overly sensitive when I read it here earlier today.

February 27, 2010 - 7:00 am EST

I did not identify these two children as "Willie Ms." This was done by some label happy guidance counselor after some testing where he or she was applying the latest fad labels on kids.

I personally had no trouble with either of these two children, and both worked well with me. No, I never paid much attention to labels.

If the kid calls you a name or even curses you, simply pull him or her out of class and sit down and talk to them in a calm, respectful manner. Find out what is at the core of their trouble. Then, tell the kid how things are going to be. Then, if the kid decides to continue escalating the conflict, it is time for some detention.

I once had a kid who I was nearly certain was a psychopathic person. He told his classmates about throwing open the car door and knocking a hitch hiker pedestrian over a guardrail, and then telling his dad he hit a deer. The kid gave me some trouble in class, and in our talk, I saw a person with the coldest eyes I've ever seen. I simply looked him squarely in the eyes and told him that if he gave me no trouble, I would cause him no trouble, and he agreed to this. He gave me no trouble from then on. You have to take charge and not make a confrontation with a kid a bullying contest. And you cannot be afraid of your students either, or you will not teach them anything. I served a year in Vietnam, and I've yet to meet a student who made me afraid. I'm a male, but I know of some lady teachers who are tougher than me and I would never want to butt heads with them. It's all in your minds. You must erase the fear and homophobia from your thinking.

Two lethal mistakes teachers make is being afraid of their students and expecting perfection from them. Give them your best efforts as a teacher and let them take it from there.

February 26, 2010 - 8:37 pm EST

JDAS - You are really out of touch with reality!

Beachwalk

February 26, 2010 - 8:45 pm EST

"Having police bully kids in school is wrong simple as that."

I don't care how long you taught school, you do not know what the hell you are talking about. Police do not and have never "bullied" kids in school. And some of these "children" are indeed 200 lb. hooligans. They could care less about being at school and they could care less about whether they disrupt others from learning or not. You are part of the problem, along with school board members Quick and Hayes. You see the police as the problem, instead of civil servants, who are there to help and protect "children" and teachers. I wished you were still teaching and one of these hooligans stormed your classroom with a knife or gun. At that point, would you want some high school drop out, who works for some fly by night security company, who has maybe a month of training and doesn't have anything but a badge with the words SECURITY on it to protect you? Think about it. Is that the person you want to protect you, or would you rather have a trained police officer?

lilbean

this state is falling fast. “Kids are sending text messages (to their parents) saying, 'I’m afraid,’ ” she said.
welcome to south central.

February 26, 2010 - 4:43 am EST

Here we go... Amos Quick. What a statement. Bravo.."50,000 volts, whats next the National Guard." If you were doing your job as a school board member, worrying about education and not trying to police the police, SROs would likely not be needed in schools. So the Sheriff releases the facts about fights this week and its all about timing? What timing Amos? Amos I think this is the same school that I read about a loaded handgun was found on a student just a few short weeks ago. Let an innocent student catch a bullet and then stand up and preach your sermon Amos. Fights.. Guns on campus.. huh. No idea why this is in paper...If you want to cut SROs Amos, just do it! Quit barking about it. This is the whole problem with this School Board, no unity, no rationalization to statements, this Board is all over the road on issues, and the parents and their kids are the ones suffering from the Boards inability to make concise and "best" decisions in favor of their children. Why do we have underacheiving schools?.. the answer...school board dont spend time on what they need to be doing.. EDUCATION. God bless you Garth! It is what it is and nothing more.... Amos is living in another world, like most of the Board Members, no real educational experience at the secondary school level, Its like having the Hotel Industry run the NASA Program. Dont make sense does it? Where does Mr. Green stand on the SRO officers? Does the Board allow him to speak or have an opinon? I havent heard one. His background lacks about as much experience as the boards in dealing with schools. If the Principal at Eastern has called for more security this week, then we got a problem dont we Amos? Why is it we hear of no other local Board of Education's laundry on the news? Randolph, Forsyth, Rockingham,? I know why, and I think most Guilford County residence know why, but they continue to allow incompetence to run our School Board. I have come to realize that most folks really dont think the Board positions are important. Thats why most of the time, positions are unopposed. Well we have a chance to do some house cleaning this May. I wish they were all running at large, more would run and there would be a couple voted off pretty quick I think. Dont know who this Lisa Clapp is, but good luck in your run for the Board!

Interested

February 26, 2010 - 5:56 am EST

At what point in time did Mr. Quick think news of the arrests should be made available to the community? These arrests took place this week, the information should be available this week, just as any arrests off school property would be.
The timing may not have been convenient for him, or his agenda, but such is the reality of life.

February 26, 2010 - 6:30 am EST

There was a recent instance in Public School 190 in Queens NY where a little 12 year old girl was arrested for writing on her desk with an erasable marker that she loved her two friends. She was handcuffed and frog marched by three policemen across the Quad in front of all of her friends. Her mother came to the police station and found her chained to a post in the middle of the police station.

I taught school until I retired and I really hated the School Resource Officers. They were arrogant little wannabe bullies who looked for an reason to bully kids and even teachers or anyone else around. That is the nature of many policemen who get it in their heads that maintaining order is much more important than education or people or the needs of society itself. One
of our SROs was fired for beating up a kid who called him a name. Another would burst into my classroom with his doberman drug dog and try to harass specific students that he suspected of wrongdoing or just plain didn't like. The arrogance of these guys is amazing. I ran him out of my class one day and got a dressing down from our authoritarian principal.

Principals and school boards love these officers because it protects them from lawsuits and the public in discipline matters, but they are really not needed and serve as a bad example for our children, or at least that is my humble opinion.

As far as I'm concerned, schools do not need officers on campus. If the principal is not skilled enough to handle a problem, he or she needs replacement also.

They are children for God's sake. Not criminals.

But, alas, political authoritarianism and a police state (even in schools) is the new norm for "freedom loving America."

A final comment before I stop. Because of the war on terror and fear of social unrest, the federal government is pouring lots of money in police departments across the nation. So, these departments must justify their jobs and they look for any person they can find to police, even schoolchildren. This is no different with the officer in a school. He or she is looking for a way to justify their employment...find some wrongdoing and if none can be found, poke around until they find something that they can turn into wrongdoing. Its a vicious cycle with unintended negative consequences.

mamaboilermaker

February 26, 2010 - 7:22 am EST

Sorry, but some of them ARE criminals--like the drug dealer with the backpack full of money and drugs and the kids who assault other kids. We can't both keep the criminals in school and have safe schools--we have to decide which we will have.

I would agree with principals handling things so long as the principal has the power to exclude dangerous kids. If the principal has to let criminals and bullies stay, we can't hold him/her responsible for what happens.

February 26, 2010 - 8:22 am EST

JDAS - While I do not doubt that there are adults foolish enough to drag a child off for such a ridiculous reason, I also do not doubt that there are serious offenders in school either. For that reason, I do believe SROs are a valuable too. That being said, there are also people who have no business being in law enforcement, much less being the SRO, for exactly the reasons you mentioned. But do not assume that all SROs bully children. In our local schools, most students enjoy positive relationships with the SROs. These relationships allow students to feel safe enough to report potential problems in time to help defuse them.

As to police departments looking for a way to justify their employment in the schools, I have to disagree. The schools invited them in. It isn't as if law enforcement is going around town pitching an idea to find additional ways to police the city. I'm sure they have enough on their plates to keep them busy.

funinthesun

February 26, 2010 - 8:27 am EST

It sounds as though JDAS has been arrested or stopped or ticketed by a police officer. I see alot of anger towards LEO and its really sad that you hate them until you call 9-1-1 and then they cant get there fast enough. Im glad you arent in our schools anymore. You're probably too old to deal with these thugs.

February 27, 2010 - 7:15 am EST

Think! Think! Think!

These SROs are given guns and trained to tase, club, shoot and restrain people. They are taught to investigate wrongdoing. Sure, some are nice people, but their jobs are dependent upon discovering wrongdoing, and, being good employees, they will try to do their jobs as well as they can. When the pressure comes for them to justify their employment, the temptation is great to search extra hard or to find minor offenses like the girl's desk writing to make an arrest.

Think some more! This issue of cops in schools is not really about safety. It is about creating an environment where lots of money is made by employing lots and lots of people in law enforcement, and supplying them with weapons and gear and training and consultations from highly paid "experts." At the same time, money for books and classroom materials and teacher salaries is being cut out of state and local budgets.

Teaching kids to cower every time they see a cop is not educating them in the things that will make a bright future for us. It is educating them to become fearful, unthinking robots who mindlessly comply with directions from anyone who desires to order them around and make them servants...and some of you guys talk about freedom? Gimme a break!

oscardad44

February 27, 2010 - 10:48 am EST

@ JDAS ...YOUR STATEMENT MAKES SENSE we will have to pray that the other bloggers wake up and smell the coffee

As a teacher I do not feel more safe at school just because a SRO officer is on-site perhaps if they took the funds for his/her salary and used it on teachers, teachers assistance and resources in our classrooms then the students would be able to understand their lesson.

A SOUND BASIC EDUCATION never hurt anyone!

Panacea

February 26, 2010 - 8:31 am EST

The incident you speak of with the 12 year old girl; the principal is to blame for that scenario: she called the cops and had the girl arrested.

February 27, 2010 - 7:22 am EST

Check out the story. Just google. Girl arrested for writing on desk. It occurred at PS 109 in Forrest Hills, Queens, NY.

Now, read a little further when you google, and you will see that a school SRO was arrested for sexually abusing a female student there at the same school on two different occasions.

No, not all SROs are nice guys. Some are poorly educated and are young and are interested in more than student safety.

February 26, 2010 - 9:21 am EST

Boy! Were you the "Helen Keller" of the teaching world.

February 26, 2010 - 9:22 am EST

I respect your opinion as someone with "inside" knowledge. BUT that was in NY not guilford county. The Eastern principle thought they should have more SROs this week because there was a good possibility of a fight or 2 breaking out. Instead 3 broke out, with increased law enforcement present! I dont even want to consider how much worse it would have been without the extra security. Obviuosly the principal was right. Also dont you find it strange that 100 kids at that party had issues at the party, obviously at someones home, but waited to go to school to start the fights, instead of at the home where the party was.

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