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No mall in Guilford County planning a curfew

Wednesday, February 10, 2010
(Updated 2:31 pm)

GREENSBORO Mall managers in Guilford County said Tuesday they have no plans to implement weekend curfews on teenagers.

They say there’s no reason to.

Retailers at Hanes Mall say the mall’s owner — CBL Properties & Associates — is considering barring unsupervised teens after 5 p.m. each Friday and Saturday, according to the Winston-Salem Journal. Mall management has not confirmed the plan.

Many malls nationwide set curfews. Officials say teens left unsupervised create disturbances, commit crime and create large crowds that often drive away customers.

Brad Rogers, general manager of Friendly Center and the Shops at Friendly Center — also owned by CBL — said teens haven’t created much of a nuisance there.

“These programs are normally put into place when you have a real problem,” he said. “I think there is a difference between having a teen problem and a problem with a few teens. We don’t see a lot of problems with teens.”

At Four Seasons Town Centre, general manager Mark Thorsen said conditions don’t merit a curfew.

“As long as teens abide by our code of conduct, we anticipate an enjoyable experience for all of (our patrons),” he said. “We have no formal plan in place (to implement a curfew). But we encourage all parents to take responsibility and supervise their children.”

Greensboro police Capt. Chris Walker said authorities receive occasional complaints from retailers at Four Seasons when parents use the mall as a baby-sitting service.

He said off-duty officers work with mall security to head off any problem before it gets out of hand.

“The big issue is loitering, disruptions and fights,” he said. “Those are more of nuisance issues that impact their bottom line. While it’s an issue, it’s not a critical issue — it’s more of a nuisance issue for children left unsupervised.”

Rather than ban teenagers, Oak Hollow Mall in High Point is embracing them, said Vickeé Armstrong, the mall’s general manager.

For three years, the mall has welcomed Crossings, a weekend outreach ministry from The Crossings @ High Point, a Christian church. Teens can play games, shoot pool, listen to music and socialize.

“They provide a teen haven and provide opportunities for teens to do other things to occupy their time and give them a positive note,” she said. “We are very proactive and I think that’s why parents feel comfortable bringing their children here.”

While a teen curfew can be seen as a quick fix to curb nuisance problems, retail experts said the move can easily backfire.

“These are viable customers you want to attract and move with them to their professional life, when they are generating income,” said Nancy Miller, a professor of consumer apparel and retail studies at UNCG.

“I understand the problems that can arise (to use a curfew), but it could be turned around to cater to teens and not be baby sitters.”

Retail expert Patricia Norins, who publishes two retail trade magazines, said the decision to use a curfew should be a community decision and not an abrupt move by mall management.

“It’s important to have focus groups to see how big of a problem this is for the mall,” said Norins, who estimates 10 to 20 percent of malls nationwide have curfews.

“It’s a shame because each teen they say no to — that’s money they are spending elsewhere.”

While a curfew may be harsh, it’s not as bad as other approaches some international malls take.

Norins said a mall in Australia plays Barry Manilow songs to discourage teens. Others use loud-pitched tones over speaker systems that can be heard only by young ears.

And a United Kingdom mall’s solution? Pink fluorescent lights designed to irritate acne.

“Sometimes, the problems (solutions) create far outweigh the nuisance,” she said.

Contact Ryan Seals at 373-7077 or ryan.seals@news-record.com 

Accompanying Photos

File photo (News & Record)

Photo Caption: Four Seasons Town Centre in Greensboro.

Codes of Conduct

FRIENDLY CENTER: “Friendly Center asks visitors to refrain from: Attendance of children (under age 18) during school hours unaccompanied by a parent, teacher or legal guardian (excluding school holidays and home schooled students). Unaccompanied children ages 16-17 may produce proof of reduced school hours or completion thereof.”

FOUR SEASONS TOWN CENTRE: Nothing in the code specifically addresses the behavior of children or teenagers. It does ban, among other things, “excessive loitering, unnecessarily blocking walkways, roadways or storefronts; running, horseplay or disorderly conduct of any nature.”

 

Comments

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ustaxpayer

February 10, 2010 - 5:49 am EST

Rember when you were a teenager and ran around the mall with your friends? Give me a break...Is it really that serious to ban teens from the malls? I hope these kids get together and boycott some of the stores there and shut em down!!! These STUPID people do not realize the teens are the ones mainly spending their parents (hard earned) money there. President Bush, obviously, must be behind this to keep Obama from being successful and keeping the economy at a standstill.

finance1

February 10, 2010 - 6:47 am EST

REALLY? I mean REALLY? I certainly hope that your last sentence was sarcastic as I am sure even someone who voted for a Democrat is not silly enough to believe that putting a curfew in a mall is a plot by the Republican party.

This is a private, not public but private, business and if they decide to establish a curfew then they can and more power to them. It will be up to the public to vote with their dollars to not go there but this has nothing to do with government.

Having not been to the mall in quite some time I really do not care what they do and if Oak Hollow Mall is any example then "welcoming" teens is not the answer either. Oak Hollow Mall has lost a flag ship store in Dillards and is taking the fast track to being abandon since it is probably over half empty by now. The reason they welcome teens is they are probably trying to get every nickle they can just to stay open, certainly not profitable.

I did get a chuckle out of the last sentence of your comment though. Thanks for the laugh.

kurgun

February 10, 2010 - 7:24 am EST

Hanes Mall has really got some nerve. I partially agree with this however, there is plenty of things to do on the weekend besides loitering around a mall. The problem with Hanes Mall is that they are biased against anything they just simply don't like or agree with. A few years back I wore a Tshirt that had a pagan pentacle on it, and the mall security told me I had to leave because it was offensive to Christians. Funny in a way, considering that pagans and their religion was around wayyy before Christ, so they don't like that apparently. Then they tell me that Hanes Mall is private property, hmm, that being the case then I guess anyone can own an operate a store on anyone else' private property and then tell people shopping on that private property they have to follow certain rules to be allowed to shop there. All comes down to the constitution doesen't pertain to certain instances when certain businesses deem it necessary to be overlooked. I still shop in Hanes Mall, but I believe the owners think they are better than everyone else and can make rules as they see fit private or public.

jstevenh1952

February 10, 2010 - 9:53 am EST

You are right. You can own property and restrict access under the law. Dress codes, smoking, lewd conduct and whatever else. As long as you don't break the laws. That is a protection under our Consititution. I think it is the Fifth Amendment.

Now in Iran, another Islamic country or China they would have arrested you and you might still be in prison.

Don't we live in a great country, where your only denial to access to a private facility is that your dress (t-shirt) does not conform to accepted public standards.

Just a thought.

tledford

February 10, 2010 - 11:54 am EST

I suspect you're thinking of rulings over the years that have clarified the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment14/06.html#6

The Fifth Amendment is the protection against self-incrimination.

jstevenh1952

February 10, 2010 - 2:54 pm EST

The Constitution protects property rights mainly through the Fifth Amendment’s Takings or Just Compensation Clause: ‘‘nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.’’

Source Cato Institue http://www.cato.org/pubs/handbook/hb111/hb111-34.pdf

Fourteenth Amendment - Rights Guaranteed Privileges and Immunities of Citizenship, Due Process and Equal Protection http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment14/

Both cover it. But the Cato papers expand more on the fith.

tledford

February 10, 2010 - 7:33 pm EST

Right, but the Cato Institute is a right-wing nutjob organization.

jeepdriver

February 10, 2010 - 7:25 am EST

This is the exact reason my wife and I refuse to shop at Four Seasons during the week end. If and when we do go, it is usually during the week and while the kids are in school. With only the anchor stores that cater to us older folks, Friendly and the Shops at Friendly are more suited for us. True, kids do spend money at the mall and with the economy in melt down, the retailers can use all the business these kids bring in. The last time we were at the mall, it seemed like 95% of the stores cater to teens.
Friendly has and will always be head and shoulders above Four Seasons for quality of goods and services. Everytime we go during the week to Friendly, the stores are packed with us "older folks" making large purchases. Our money spends also.

JustMe

February 10, 2010 - 8:16 am EST

Four Seasons is right they don't need a Curfew, they need a "No Gangster Thug Wannabe Free Zone" cause that is all that goes there any more, wannabe gangster thugs. At least outside it fits in with the rest of the High Point Road since it looks so run down and unkept. All reasons I and my family stopped going there years ago. Friendly Center and Alamance Crossing are far superior to Four Seasons.

AirDoc

February 10, 2010 - 9:21 am EST

Like it or not, when Mom and Dad dump lots of 14, 15, 16 and 17 year-olds off at the mall for the evening with little money, boredom quickly sets in. When this happens, children of this age will often act out in an attempt to relieve the boredom or impress their friends. This behavior is relatively predictable with this age group. The result is an environment that is detrimental to both merchants and shoppers. The people I know who dislike this decision are those who misbehave at the mall and their parents who think the mall is a safe and free place to babysit their kids. I support this tough decision made by Hanes Mall.

dusenberry

February 10, 2010 - 10:30 am EST

Four Seasons lost my business many years ago. No who dat for me.

Beachwalk

February 10, 2010 - 11:10 am EST

The last time I heard Hanes Mall is doing much better than Four Seasons. Maybe Four Seasons could learn a few things from Hanes. I too have long ago stop shopping at Four Season Gang Center.

HotRodLincoln

February 10, 2010 - 11:19 am EST

Just this simple, I'm not taking my family somewhere that I feel our safety is threatened. Mall's will become a thing of the past and the future will be in the form of Friendly Shopping Center and Alamance Crossing. These mobs are what killed Carolina Circle. Don't blame it all on the teenagers, there are plenty of 19 - 25 year old's that are just as much a problem as the younger thuglet's. I really don't see a fair way to police this issue.

EGParent

February 10, 2010 - 2:45 pm EST

I stopped shopping Four Seasons years ago when one of their "friendly" teenagers shot another
one in the leg as he was jumping over a couch in the furniture section of JC Penny....unfortunately
this is a Greensboro City/Guilford County issue...not just a mall problem...The same issue
we are facing in our schools and on our streets...yet our leaders don't think our schools need SRO
officers in them...Some of the same leaders that would not let Four Seasons enforce an unsupervised
teenager code a few years ago...It is not that Four Seasons did not want one at one time...and yes they still need it.
but it is too late...They have already lost their shoppers.

Tia-mia

February 10, 2010 - 2:48 pm EST

Has any one even tried to shop at the Piedmont Mall in Danville. It's a very uncomfortable thing. The security there is so uptight and aggressive that they have gone over the line. My husband and I (both 40s) took our teens there to shop WITH them. We didn't drop them off. While we were waiting for the kids to come out of Hot Topic, we were told we had to leave the mall! We had stood still outside the shop while the kids went in, violating the Mall's loitering policy! How strange is that? In a time where everyone is complaining about lack of parental involvement a 40ish couple gets asked to leave because they weren't roaming mindlessly like the throngs of thugs that circle ceaselessly like sharks.

timflowers

February 10, 2010 - 3:39 pm EST

I've owned stores in 3 different malls. Teens don't spend much money. They don't have any to spend, but they do go to malls to socialize and kill time.

But in defense of malls and their patrons, comments about Four Seasons mall being a gang center seem very racist. I've been to that mall, and many others, hundreds of times and never felt threatened. Some people think that 4 white people in a group are just friends, but 4 blacks or hispanics in a group must be a gang. Wonder why that is?

MR.SOFTBALL27

February 10, 2010 - 5:16 pm EST

Looks like that Four Seasons is going down the same road that the old Carolina Circle mall went down, and that use to be a great mall, it had a ice ring and theatre and small food court and it just got ran down.

Tia-mia

February 10, 2010 - 9:26 pm EST

Not one person commented on what color any of the gangs were. Your entire statement seems invalid because of an out of context remark.

trojan

February 10, 2010 - 9:19 pm EST

jeepdriver you nailed it ! My family and I quit doing our serious shopping at the local babysitting centers [malls] severel years ago . We now go on a nice trip to Myrtle Beach and spend our money in pleasant non - threatening enviroment at any one of the clean uncrowded Tanger Outlets . Always am in the company of older well mannered families from across the United States and abroad . No wandering groups of "possees" , just me and the geritol gang relaxing and spending our money on our kids and grand-kids .Perhaps some of these so-called "retail experts " quoted in this article should take note so you can knowledgebly advise your clients to the misgivings of giving in to a group of consumers who ruin it for everyone else.

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