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Judge: Prayer before N.C. meeting unconstitutional

Thursday, January 28, 2010
(Updated 5:11 pm)
By
Associated Press

WINSTON-SALEM (AP) — Using prayer to open a North Carolina county board of commissioners meeting violates the First Amendment, a federal judge ruled Thursday, adopting recommendations made earlier by a magistrate judge.

"The Supreme Court has also emphasized that such legislative prayers must not advance a particular faith or belief, because to do so would have the effect of affiliating the Government with that particular faith or belief in violation of the Establishment Clause," U.S. District Judge James A. Beaty Jr. wrote.

His five-page decision requires the Forsyth County board of commissioners to stop its pre-meeting prayers.

The American Civil Liberties Union of North Carolina in March 2007 filed a lawsuit on behalf of two Forsyth County residents who said many of the commission's meetings opened with Christian-themed prayers.

Janet Joyner and Constance Lynn Blackmon also are members of the Winston-Salem Chapter of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, a religious liberty watchdog group based in Washington, D.C., that helped with the case.

The commission argued that its policy of inviting outside clergy to deliver the pre-meeting invocations meant that it was staying neutral with regard to prayers. But the ACLU and Americans United said that any opening prayer must be nonsectarian for the government to be truly neutral.

Blackmon applauded the ruling in a release issued Thursday by the ACLU.

"This court order preserves freedom of conscience for people of all different beliefs, whether they are in the majority or the minority, by requiring our government to remain neutral in matters of religion," Blackmon said.

A spokesman for the Alliance Defense Fund, which represented the board, did not immediately return a message seeking comment. But Walter Marshall, a Forsyth County commissioner since 1997, said he agreed with Beaty's ruling.

"I support the judge's decision," Marshall said. "The issue really wasn't prayer. It was a case of democracy versus theocracy."

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nippded twistle

January 28, 2010 - 4:25 pm EST

Can we remove corruption from political meetings too? It offends me as much as prayer offends people of other beliefs.

countryboy

January 28, 2010 - 4:40 pm EST

Unnecessary waste of tax dollars violates my religious beliefs...literally...can we get a judge to stop that as well.

Almeister

January 29, 2010 - 3:44 pm EST

Come on! What's more important? Upholding our rights and liberty according to the Constitution...or some petty 'legal fees'?

It's about time our political representatives actually represented everyone, not just Christians.

bsro1973

January 28, 2010 - 4:41 pm EST

Whereas I agree w/ the ruling and support it, the Forsyth County taxpayers lose because we have to pay the legal fees.

whyus

January 28, 2010 - 4:42 pm EST

It will be interesting when the ACLU folks and liberal judges get to meet their Maker. Then let them explain themselves.

2fer

January 28, 2010 - 6:42 pm EST

Will they have any more trouble than witless believers, or will a god of wisdom appreciate their search for truth and freedom of conscience?

Almeister

January 29, 2010 - 3:11 pm EST

Typical religious speculation and rhetoric. Empty 'scare tactics' don't work on the wise.

CADDMAN

January 28, 2010 - 4:50 pm EST

Those two offended Forsyth County residents should sent all there money to me I want be offended.

I'm sure that money has IN GOD WE TRUST on it.

Interested

January 28, 2010 - 5:29 pm EST

The first amendment does not exist in a vacuum.

nemrac

January 28, 2010 - 11:49 pm EST

Excuse me, just what are you trying to say. I have a vacuum bottle that I put coffee into. Does this count?

Dogwood

January 28, 2010 - 5:29 pm EST

Our US senate hires and pays benefits for a chaplain. ACLU sticks local folk with their attorney fees. This is nothing more than a money-making scheme. I pray to mother nature everyday. Mom says this evil profit
.

lwwilli

January 28, 2010 - 5:49 pm EST

All i can say is MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON THERE SOLES. What are they going to say to God on Judgement day. Seperate me form your church it offendes me. GOOD LUCK ON THAT ACLU.

Cemetery

January 28, 2010 - 9:01 pm EST

May god have mercy on THEIR SOLES? HAHA I'm sure their shoes will go to heaven regardless of their beliefs.

Jimnet

January 29, 2010 - 2:46 pm EST

There soles... where soles... Their souls wear soles!
If you acquired your grammar from the same people who taught you religion, you should request a refund for both!
If you believe god is merciful, then you have never actually read the bible. One of MANY instances... Your god drown thousands of his own children simply because they were not what he wanted or expected of them. Yet he was the one who made them that way to begin with. AND, he knew all along what was going to happen and played it through anyway!!! Not as merciful as definition demands.Read the book of Joshua if you really want blood and guts from your merciful god. It's worse than any slasher movie ever put on the big screen.

2fer

January 28, 2010 - 6:40 pm EST

I thought that only Muslims were offended by soles. This is the sort of nonsense that gives credence to stereotypical depictions of religious zealots. I wonder if this is also the kind of believer who sends profanity-laced, anonymous messages to freethinkers and others concerned with religious freedom.

Cemetery

January 28, 2010 - 9:01 pm EST

I'm throwing a shoe at you right now. LOL

SATA

January 28, 2010 - 7:08 pm EST

If people want to pray, they can go to their churches, mosques, temples, sinagogues... why does it have to be in public meetings or gatherings. If you believe that the meeting has to start with a prayer then pray silently.. That's what I do when I feel like it. Why do I force someone else to listen to my prayers?

Cemetery

January 28, 2010 - 9:02 pm EST

HERE HERE!

williag_1998

January 28, 2010 - 7:33 pm EST

A prayer is a positive thing that gives people hope. People that don't believe in God really have no hope. When you take the 10 commandments down, and take prayer, the bible etc. out of our lives, you are taking away hope.

SATA

January 28, 2010 - 7:41 pm EST

not really, the hope is still there whether you pray publicly or not..if you believe in GOD, you should be confident of your belief... I am a believer and I am very comfortable with not praying in public... I don't need to force others to take the time and pray like me. It should be natural act not forced.

Cemetery

January 28, 2010 - 9:02 pm EST

I feel full of hope, not false promises, every day. :)

torrid

January 28, 2010 - 10:30 pm EST

I've had enough of hope, thank you very much. For just slightly over a year now.

Jimnet

January 29, 2010 - 2:06 pm EST

NO ONE has asked you to give up hope, praying, the bible, the ten commandments et cetera. The point here is, STOP doing it at government proceedings and venues.You can pray until hell freezes over for all I care, as long as you do it on your own time at the proper place. Sit in your house and read the bible ALL DAY LONG!!! Why do religionists insist on skewing the intention of the first amendment and claim that religion is under attack? Go be religious... Go pray... Go obey the ten commandments and post them in your church. BUT, keep religion out of government!!! Why is that so hard for you to understand? Why? It's an easy concept.
DON'T mix religion and government!

jodygodie

January 28, 2010 - 8:06 pm EST

The U.S. Constitution says Government shall make no laws concerning the establishment of religion or the free practice thereof. What law did the Board of Commissioners make? They make no laws. But the judge sure ruled against the "free practice thereof" part.

Cemetery

January 28, 2010 - 9:03 pm EST

Separation of church & state is what was ruled on.

jodygodie

January 28, 2010 - 9:42 pm EST

Nothing in the Constitution about "separation of church and state." See my comment above. What we need on the courts are not lawyers, but English professors who can interpret what the Constitution actually says.

Jimnet

January 29, 2010 - 2:26 pm EST

I take it you have never heard of an addendum or ratification. How about supreme court rulings which carry president in federal law. Would you think that we should follow laws 200 years old without ever amending them to suit today's lifestyle? You need to catch up pilgrim! Laws constantly change according to needs of the public at large. There are no rules in the constitution telling me I can't travel at 80MPH in a 25MPH school district either, so try it, and when the cop pulls you over, tell him it's not in the constitution. Good luck with that!

malvern

January 28, 2010 - 8:17 pm EST

As a taxpayer, nothing makes me happier than to see my money -- slap down fascist Christian right-wingers who think that their beliefs or faith is the only one that matters in this world. There is no room for prayer in public places, keep your prayers and beliefs in your own church and out of my life.

Cemetery

January 28, 2010 - 9:03 pm EST

Malvern...I couldn't agree with you more. I will gladly pay if it means tolerance for others who don't believe the same way the majority believes.

MR.SOFTBALL27

January 29, 2010 - 9:50 am EST

I will gladly take your money and buy you and ole malvern a one way ticket out of this counrty.

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