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NEWS

Would swim center be a boon for city?

Friday, December 11, 2009
(Updated 9:28 am)

GREENSBORO — By next week, the city should have a better idea of whether it will build a competitive regional aquatics center or simply an indoor community pool.

While a community pool might satisfy the needs of local swim teams and the public, an aquatics center could lure more visitors who would spend millions at area hotels, restaurants and other businesses.

Which facility the City Council chooses to build at the Greensboro Coliseum Complex will be determined soon.

The chief issue involves the center’s cost. City voters agreed last year to spend $12 million on the facility.

But when city officials designed the aquatics center and priced construction, it came in over budget by more than $6 million.

Earlier this month, the former City Council chose to go the more expensive route and use proceeds from the hotel sales tax to make up the gap.

But the new City Council, which includes four new members, wants to review the whole issue and plans to discuss it at the regular Tuesday meeting, if not during a two-day retreat that begins today.

The council has the following options:

* Agree with the previous council and use hotel sales tax revenue to close the construction funding gap.

* Find a corporate sponsor for the facility.

* Put another request to the voters next year to see if they will approve paying for the difference.

* Pare back some part of the aquatics center to bring it under the original $12 million budget.

A number of residents have said the city is overreaching to build a major aquatic center and is going against what voters originally supported.

Some council members, including Trudy Wade and Danny Thompson, expressed support earlier this week for a new referendum to see if voters want to spend more money on the facility.

“It seems to me it restores (the people’s) trust in us,” Wade said earlier this week. “It makes it fair.”

Other council members, however, have said that notion is little more than a thinly disguised attempt to gut the project.

“If I were trying to kill a project,” Councilman Robbie Perkins said, “it would be one of the ways I would do it. It’s pretty slick.”

Henri Fourrier, head of the Greensboro Area Convention and Visitors Bureau, has said at least a couple of options in front of the council aren’t viable. A corporate sponsor isn’t available now.

And cutting the pool’s diving well, Fourrier said, would be unwise.

“It’s like having a track, but no field,” he said.

The diving well, Fourrier said, with a 50-meter pool, can lure regional, state and national meets similar to those at other pools in North Carolina.

Similar facilities in Charlotte, Cary and Huntersville regularly host such events throughout the year.

Local boosters already are reaching out to regional swimming organizations and teams about meets here and asking collegiate athletics programs to hold meets at the center.

“It would definitely be something we’d consider,” said Kris Pierce, assistant director of championships for the ACC.

The NCAA wouldn’t make an official call on whether Greensboro would get a collegiate meet but said it could be a location for future meets.

The events that make the biggest impact on hotels and restaurants come through youth swim and diving associations, which could bring dozens of teams, hundreds of athletes and families. The groups most often compete in youth and masters competitions for swimming, diving, water polo and synchronized swimming.

Trish Martin, president of the Greensboro Swimming Association, said the club would move all its swimming events to the aquatics center.

“The beauty of this is that they could have a championship meet with swimming and diving,” Martin said, “and we’ve already had a lot of interest expressed in the facility.”

High-profile national meets could come here as well.

“Nationals generally have upwards of 1,000 swimmers and a larger group that would accompany them,” said Karen Linhart, spokeswoman for USA Swimming.

Officials at aquatic centers across the state and within sanctioning bodies agree that another venue for competitive swimming in the state would be used.

Pools in Charlotte and Cary carry full schedules and bring millions to each community through hotel tax and other tourism money. Both also have annual operating deficits that aren’t covered totally by ticket sales and memberships.

Mecklenburg’s pool in downtown Charlotte, which booked 46 swim meets this year, receives about $500,000 from local government for operating expenses.

The nonprofit Triangle Aquatic Center in Cary seeks donations and volunteers to keep open.

Mike Curran, president of the Triangle Aquatic Center, said his facility generates a $5.3 million economic impact for the Triangle each year from its 35 events.

There appear to be enough high-profile events to go around.

* The aquatic center in Cary will host high school regional and state swimming championships in February.

* Mecklenburg had Michael Phelps and other top-ranked U.S. swimmers come to Charlotte UltraSwim as part of the USA Swimming Grand Prix, which sold out three days’ worth of events.

* The aquatic center in Huntersville held the 2005 national diving championships and hosted the 2009 Pan Am junior championships for synchronized swimming.

All three centers host numerous local and regional events.

A competition pool in Greensboro, with high dives, would be a selling point.

“There is a demand both from AAU swimming and diving and USA swimming and diving both for facilities that can host swimming and diving events,” said John Wolsh, head coach of the Montgomery Dive Club in suburban Maryland.

Wolsh is a former vice president of USA Diving in charge of its Junior Olympics programs. He’s also coached a world champion and 11 U.S. national diving teams.

But, Wolsh said, day-to-day programs are just as important to provide not just for big meets but for community use, too.

“While Jimmy is doing the swim team class, mommy can go and do a spin class or pilates class,” he said.

Contact Gerald Witt at 373-7008 or gerald.witt@news-record.com

Accompanying Photos

City of Greensboro

Photo Caption: Artist's rendering of the proposed aquatic center.

COMPARING SWIM CENTERS

If the proposed Greensboro Aquatic Center is built, it would join others in North Carolina as a potential host for youth meets and other events.

Proposed Greensboro Aquatic Center
* 50-meter competition pool.
* 25-yard warm pool.
* 10-meter dive tower and 17-foot  diving well.
* Fitness room, pro shop, 4 classrooms.
* 2,128 seats.
* 78,323 square feet.
* Would be owned and operated by Greensboro, with a proposed $652,000 annual budget needing a $153,000 transfer from city for annual operating expenses.

Mecklenburg County Aquatic Center
* 50-meter competition pool.
* 25-yard warm pool.
* Adult-only spa.
* Fitness center.
* 1- and 3-meter diving boards.
* 645 seats.
* 47,000 square feet.
* Owned and operated by Mecklenburg County. Has about a $900,000 annual budget, with a $375,000 contribution from Mecklenburg County for annual operating expenses.


Triangle Aquatic Center (Cary)
* 50-meter competition pool.
* 25-yard warm pool.
* Warm water instructional pool.
* 1,000 seats.
* Fitness area, swim shop and cafe.
* 72,000 square feet.
* Owned and operated by a nonprofit with $1.5 million annual operating expenses, including volunteer labor.

Huntersville Family Fitness & Aquatics
* 50-meter competition pool.
* 25-yard warm pool.
* Outdoor family pool.
* Gym, fitness center and cafe.
* 10-meter dive tower.
* 2,000 seats.
* 88,000 square feet.
* Owned by Huntersville, operated by a management company. In 2009-10, the pool will receive a $405,000 transfer from Huntersville for annual operating expenses.

Source: News & Record research

Comments

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brian444

December 11, 2009 - 3:22 am EST

Good article. Would like more info on the suggested, what, $13 mil economic impact? If the TAC brings in $5 mil with a budget twice as big, that number looks suspect, no? And if there were an extra $13 mil brought in, what number, roughly speaking, would be recouped in the hotel tax and sales tax?

jbcarper

December 11, 2009 - 7:44 am EST

Is there a link that would allow me to see the actual economic analysis for this project?

xeno10

December 11, 2009 - 4:20 am EST

Yes, "city voters agreed last year [including myself] to spend $12 million on an aquatics center." Now voters are told the cost will be $18 million-plus! So, it's time for City Council to find a corporate sponsor or "go back to the drawing board and "downsize" the project -- or, as someone recently said: "A riot is an ugly thing. And it's about time we had one!" Seriously.

taxed out

December 11, 2009 - 11:38 am EST

Not a riot, but we need to show up and voice our opinions. There is a public hearing at 5:30p on December 15th in the City Council Chambers. We need to sign up at 5:00p.

Folks now is the time to let the City Council hear our voices. It is great to post all of this on this board, but we need to show up in person and deliver the message.

Jeramy

December 12, 2009 - 1:45 pm EST

So the out going council had a last minute meeting that took money away from needed improvements to the Coliseum to cover the gap in the cost of the Aqutics Center, that is where the hotel tax was to be spent, so who is going to pay for the improvements now? The coliseum needs these upgrades with it hosting the ACC tournament 5 out of the next 6 years. Also all three of the other centers in the state lose money every year so what we will get is a pool nobody can afford to join, a nice Aquatics center to be used mostly by people not living and paying for it in Greensboro and a long time tax burden and money pit I see why Zack and Robbie are such big fans Great Job wasting more tax payers money!

glenwoodresident

December 11, 2009 - 5:27 am EST

If businesses, merchants, and hotels get the bulk of the money into their coffers and the city gets only a share of the hotel tax then the solution is simple. Let the Lee street Merchants Association, Greensboro Merchants Association, Better Business Bureau, all the restaurants and motels and hotels put up some of the money. The article states that other centers operate in the red, so taxpayers subsidize the operation. How can the tax payer continue to subsidize private businesses. That is all this is. The city provided the building, the management, the land, the place (a draw so to speak; the businesses get the profits. If you think this pool is going to be used for the citizens and public swim time, then you are sadly mistaken. The other centers are book with swim meet events all the time. Oh you might have a public swim time once a week or early morning, but I bet they charge you for that and to park for it too. the pool will not be for the citizens, it will before the merchants to create a draw to the city, and when the event is over; they get the money, we get a portion of the tax, we get to clean up, and to flip the expenses. If the city want to stimulate spending, we need to get our own niche for a draw. we need to quit trying to be like Raleigh, Charlotte, and any other big city. We need to get out front and quit trying to copy others. But we all know how this works, we will get the pool, and the extra tax burden. Look at the coliseum renovations. That was put on ballot over and over and over, they kept changing the bond configuration and amounts till either the people like it or just plan got tired of voting against it. Every one go get you trunks and towels cause you got a pool coming for sure. Perhaps those citizens with a property tax bill can get in free or a special parking place.

Mick

December 11, 2009 - 7:41 am EST

Ever go to the Natural Science Center? Not free. Many tax payer owned City facilities are not free. Cheap or cheaper... yes. I like the idea of city residents paying less than county though.

Where do you get your info the other swim facilities dont have public time available? Scheduling will be a challenge no doubt but I think you are making assumptions. Did you check MAC website or call for public usage hours. Sorry if you did.

dcolin

December 12, 2009 - 1:12 pm EST

Mick

I would start to worry if I were you.

Killing this white elephant is gaining steam.

RealTruth

December 11, 2009 - 5:28 am EST

Just two question's~~If this is such a great idea, why aren't any of the swim teams (college or otherwise) offering any type of commitment? For example, I have yet to hear or read any sports team say that if we build it they will come.

Second question~~Is Robbie any kin to "slick willie?" Maybe we could get a top notch N&R reporter to investigate that family tree! Come on Greensboro, follow the route this dog and pony show has taken and look at the key players.

Mick

December 11, 2009 - 7:39 am EST

Seems pretty clear in the above article to me. I believe the ACC has expressed a keen interest and there may even be a letter floating around somewhere from "them". GSA said they would hold their meets there, SInce STAR owners and coaches have been at public meetings and written LTEs I am pretty sure they are more than just slightly interested. Havent heard from High Point Swim Club but they host at least one meet in Huntersville. As far as the national level stuff, there are comments above from many officials. Would you commit to a non-existant facility? Give credit where credit is due.

Panacea

December 11, 2009 - 10:25 am EST

What bugs me is it is clear from this article that no one explored who would actually come until AFTER the swim center became controversial, and that there are still no firm commitments.

jfk3

December 11, 2009 - 10:27 am EST

panacea -- absolutely false.

Mick

December 11, 2009 - 11:21 am EST

That is so wrong it is insulting. You hvae no idea what you are talking about. Is the N&R playing catch up. Damn right they are. Bond supporters, pool supporters, P&R, Pool Advisory Committ, etc have been all over this for months and months and months. Some folks have been at this for year. Go find another windmill to tilit at!

Beachwalk

December 11, 2009 - 3:04 pm EST

OK, IF Pancea is wrong, Who and Where are the commentments, other than the local pool supporters?
Name them. ACC certainately hasn't given a firm commentment. NCAA hasn't given a firm commentment. The

Beachwalk

December 11, 2009 - 3:06 pm EST

Sorry I acidentally hit the submit button before I was finished.

OK, IF Pancea is wrong, Who and Where are the commentments, other than the local pool supporters?
Name them. ACC certainately hasn't given a firm commentment. NCAA hasn't given a firm commentment. The (continuing) Olympic committee hasn't made any firm commentments. Who are these firm commentments?

Mick

December 11, 2009 - 4:52 pm EST

I hate when that happens! Where Pan is absolutley wrong is the first part. As to the second....

Who in the wide wide world of sports is going to commit to a non-existant facility that is still very much in debate? That is an unrealistic and therefore a false argument. The city council has the info available.

Panacea

December 12, 2009 - 10:16 am EST

My original point was it doesn't look like pool supporters even SOUGHT commitments until after the pool became controversial.

That you can't get corporate support tells me the odds of your getting the kind of competition to make the swim center viable aren't good.

Please provide a link to whatever info the council has. I have not been able to find anything online.

dcolin

December 12, 2009 - 1:14 pm EST

Fear is mounting

dcolin

December 12, 2009 - 1:13 pm EST

You are starting to panic.

Fact Checker

December 11, 2009 - 5:38 am EST

Well researched. A few additional facts could have been added.
The Cary pool posted a net gain of $114,448 on nearly $1.4 million in revenue during 2008. - Triangle Business Journal The Cary pool has less seating and no diving than Greensboro's proposed facility. Why are Grrensboro's projected revenues so much less than a facility with less to offer?
The Chamber of Commerce in Savannah, GA estimates their Aquatic Center has a $9,000,000 annual economic impact. Their pool has about 500 seats and no diving.
Greensboro's projected new tax revenue from the $14.5M economic impact is $353,000. The City would have $200,000 left over after the $153,000 projected transfer.

gogso

December 11, 2009 - 9:19 am EST

Thanks Fact Checker for delivering the facts. The diving well is key for GAC and will set this apart. Brings many more opportunities. This is a well thought out plan with many, many hours looking into other facilities across the east coast. This is not "pie in the sky". GAC operation costs will be lower than the facilties mentioned in article because exisitng infrastructure at Coliseum can be used. GAC can be incorporated with Coliseum operations which is very economical versus the other stand alone facilities in NC. Also, the economic impact has been VERY conservative accounting for only 1 major meet per month in the facility. Comparing other facilities, it is obvious GAC would see usage practically every weekend, year round.

Take the diving well out and dumb this project down and we have "just another facility." Also, build the community pool that some of our new council members are talking about and just see what this pool will cost the taxpayers. Using the hotel/motel tax is a great way to bridge the gap and let our visitors foot the bill. Let's do it right or scrap it. This would be a great economic development tool to expose our great city to the rest of the country and world.

By the way, what in Greensboro puts us in the national spotlight other than Wyndham Championship, upcoming USGA Public Links (Bryan Park Golf -- 1st class City owned facility) and events at Greensboro Coliseum such as ACC Champsionships, US Figure Skating, etc. With the state of our economy, it is time to invest in whatever we can to put Greensboro in the spotlight and start attracting visitors to our city that could lead to new investments of jobs and tax base to the city.

GET YOU HEADS OUT OF THE SAND!!! LET'S KEEP MOVING GREENSBORO FORWARD!!!

Beachwalk

December 11, 2009 - 3:12 pm EST

Investing in small business would be a longer and better investment. There are NO guarantees some other city will not build a bigger, better, deeper, warmer pool with more seating, which would draw the type of events away from Greensboro.
Invest in Small business. It will be here longer and will employ more people.

Panacea

December 11, 2009 - 10:27 am EST

I need to SEE an economic impact study. I can't find an actual study on the Net.

This projection people keep talking about needs to be posted somewhere on the Internet where people can find it and read it for themselves.

I want to see how these numbers were arrived at.

fatboy1

December 11, 2009 - 6:46 am EST

How can anyone in their right mind say that the taxpayers will not be using this pool? I'm sure DBS can belly flop in it if she desires. You have no concept of how big swimming is in this area. Drive by Lindley Pool during City Meet. The residents around it can tell you.

I have never been in a large city that so much wants to act like a town of 500. This will be a win for the people as well as many of the small businesses of Greensboro if we don't Mayberry RFD it like we usually do.

Molly the Dog

December 11, 2009 - 10:28 am EST

It is the fear tactic, which is contrary to the facts and information. This facility will be owned and used by the citizens of Greensboro. Look at the success of Mecklenburg County Aquatic Center, Pullen Park in Raleigh.

dcolin

December 12, 2009 - 1:19 pm EST

"Aquatic Center"

That sounds so sophisticated/big deal

We use to call them swimming pools

dcolin

December 12, 2009 - 1:17 pm EST

"I have never been in a large city that so much wants to act like a town of 500."

I wish more would.

igliigli

December 11, 2009 - 7:26 am EST

Another tax-payer rip-off. Why should anyone visiting Greensboro be forced to pay for something they cannot use?

jfk3

December 11, 2009 - 8:53 am EST

you ever been to florida or driven on a toll road?

Panacea

December 11, 2009 - 10:30 am EST

jfk3: if you drive on a toll road and pay a toll, then you are using what you pay for.

I've been to Florida. They have one of the lowest tax rates in then nation. They make up on taxes by charging user fees for things like parks etc. Meaning, you only pay for what you use.

You need a better example.

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