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OPINION

Allen Johnson: Lessons swim center boosters can learn from the Natural Science Center

Sunday, December 6, 2009
(Updated Tuesday, December 8 - 12:03 pm)

I wonder if members of the outgoing City Council would have been so willing to spend more than $18 million on a new competitive swim center if it were their own wallets they were reaching for instead of ours.

Thankfully, the incoming council seems less inclined to spend first and ask later.

No sooner had they taken oaths of office last week than the new council members promptly took a closer look at the real costs of the planned facility at the Greensboro Coliseum.

They did that by nixing the previous council's decision to rush additional funding for the project -- which will cost $6.3 million more than the $12 million voters approved in bonds -- as if it would turn into a pumpkin if we didn't break ground before midnight.

The new council is right. This process begs for more facts and thoughtful reflection.

One topic worth exploring is one of the city's most recent and resounding bond success stories. In spite of a frayed economy, the Natural Science Center bonds passed solidly on Nov. 3 with 61 percent of the vote. They will finance major additions and renovations to the facility, including a 26,000-square-foot aquarium, a restaurant and new exhibits.

Like the swim center, the Science Center's upgrades will cost taxpayers a sizable tab: $20 million versus $18.3 million. Unlike the swim center boosters, Science Center staff and supporters stated that plainly and clearly, from day one.

"I really, really felt compelled that we needed to be up front with this," Glenn Dobrogosz, executive director of the Science Center, said last week. "If I'm going to get that money, I want people to know this is what we're going to do and how we're going to do it."

Also, unlike the swim center, the Science Center bonds stood solely on their own merits. Even its proponents concede that the only way swim center bonds could pass, as they did in 2008, was as part of a parks and recreation package.

Twice before that, they had failed on their own.

Both projects involve lofty economic projections. The Science Center commissioned a study by Andrew Brod of UNCG's Center for Business and Economic Research that estimates an annual economic impact of $19 million, once the expansion is completed. The swim center's projected economic impact is estimated at more than $14 million a year, based on figures provided by the city's Convention and Visitors Bureau and Cary-based Sports & Properties Inc.

"We tend to stay on the conservative side," Henri Fourrier, director of the Convention and Visitors Bureau, said of those numbers.

Well, to a point. Those figures assume the complex would be able to attract a certain number of high-profile meets, but for the sake of argument, let's say it would.

The swim center's original expense projections, on the other hand, were nowhere near conservative or realistic, with the lowest construction estimates totaling nearly $20 million.

By contrast, the Science Center accounted, nearly down to the nickel, for projected construction and operating expenses before the bond vote. And its plan for cost overruns is simple.

"If we have a situation where the projects are over budget, we'll just cut them," Dobrogosz said. "Or fund them privately."

More significantly, the Science Center's building and property are city-owned but the lion's share of its funding is private. That's how it has tripled its budget even though its city funding has remained flat for 20 years. It has dozens of corporate champions. To date, the swim center has none.

Fourrier said that's not for lack of asking.

"People don't have a lot of discretionary money now," he said. "But just because it hasn't been raised to this point doesn't mean we won't keep asking."

Trudy Wade, a member of both the previous and current City Councils, remained unimpressed. "If (the swim center) was making money for veterinarians," said Wade, a veterinarian by trade, "we'd pony up and do our part."

To be fair, the swim center obviously lacks the history and cachet of the 53-year-old Science Center.

So it's instructive to look at similar facilities as benchmarks. One is the Triangle Aquatic Center in Cary, a private complex that earlier this year was struggling to pay off debts and seeking $14 million in relief from the town government.

As for comparisons between the swim center and Science Center, this is not an attempt to pit one worthy project against another.

In fact, the idea of a swim center and expanded science center is both exciting and appealing.

But as the success of the Science Center proves, this is worth doing thoughtfully, carefully and above board.

Comments

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Panacea

December 6, 2009 - 9:37 am EST

The failure of swim boosters to be honest, to think through the finances, and to raise sufficient private support has been extensively discussed on these boards.

Still, swim supporters don't get it. They will continue to insist their dream will benefit the city when all evidence points to the reverse.

I just hope the council is able to see this swim center for what it is: a pig in a poke.

I'm not opposed to the idea of a swim center. But boosters didn't do a good job of figuring out how to pay for it, and building public support before putting it on a bond issue. They shouldn't expect Greensboro to just roll over.

oh good grief

December 6, 2009 - 10:43 am EST

Mr. Johnson, please see my blog entry at 12:49 a.m. Sunday, Dec. 6 responding to the Dec. 5 Counterpoint by Gary Nixon entitled "Halt swim center until funding gap is filled."

One correction to my blog entry: EMS Services are provided by the County, not the City.

I'm grateful for your editorial, but more in-depth scrutiny and reporting by the N-R is called for, in my opinion.

Mick

December 6, 2009 - 11:01 am EST

Allen,
Why do you not compare it to MAC in Charlotte which is publically owned. Seems a more reasonable comparison to me.

Mick

December 6, 2009 - 11:19 am EST

And since we are being so "fair" Allen ... why no mention of the millions coming from CVB. or that the additional funds would not be coming from additional property taxes. I would think that info is readily available to you. Though I do understand that getting info about The MAC would have required some reporting. I dont seem to have ever seen any reporting about MAC and how it works, the benefits, costs and drawbacks. I am not sure I have even seen a mention of it. Might be wrong there though. Just TAC and it's troubles. Hmmmmmmmmm wonder why? Oh well probably not that important to the story anyway. This is an editorial afterall why bother researching a publically owned comparable facility when you have you need with TAC, right?

Pan, your points are not w/o merit. Sure coulda fooled me about not being opposed to a swim center though :)

dcolin

December 6, 2009 - 5:08 pm EST

Mick

Do you have any family that compete at swimming?
Just curious.

Mick

December 6, 2009 - 9:36 pm EST

Yes, I do. She most likely wont get to swim in whatever gets built due to her age. Matter of fact she has been in Charlotte all weelkend economic impacting that fair city. But I also voted yes years ago when she wasnt a swimmer. So take what you want from both statements. And yes I have voted no on bonds before and very recently. I have been clear on that here and MANY places going back months and prior to the bond votes. I am a supporter and I am bias. Do you think all the people who voted for this pool have competitive swimmers? Do you think the only people who support it now are swimmers? You would be wrong.

Doesnt excuse Allen of being lazy or intellectually dishonest in his editorial. Would you like the info on MAC. It is a three pool, publically owned facility. Seems good info to have in this debate. I have no inside info on MAC the info might well be detrimental to the cause. But the good folks at the N&R havent lifted a finger to investigate a similar facility.

Beachwalk

December 19, 2009 - 12:04 am EST

I seem to recall a thread you posted that said you didn't have kids in swiming competition. Now you say you do. Is this just another lie that has been told to push your tax and spent agenda?

Fact Checker

December 6, 2009 - 11:33 am EST

Yes the swim center lacks a building, a 53 year history, a paid director and staff, a board of directors etc... That is like comparing a start up business to one that is already entrenched in their community. Or, like telling a recent college grad to be more like someone with decades of experience. The Cary facility struggled (failed) because the economic benefits of a swim center go primarily to the municipalities in the form of sales and hotel taxes. Please identify one private and successful aquatic center.
Why don't you question the assumptions behind the $19M economic impact of the Science Center? Who stays multiple days, over night to visit the Science Center? How many out of town visitors are there? If the Science Center estimates are accurate, the Aquatic Center estimates must be too low.
After the election you threw your support behind the Aquatic Center. If it was established that the bigger pool was less expensive for Greensboro's taxpayers than the smaller $12M pool, would you again support it?

Andrew Brod

December 6, 2009 - 1:17 pm EST

My analysis of the economic impact of the Science Center assumed no overnight stays and no multiple-day visits. I used actual point-of-sale data from the Science Center to determine how many people visit from outside Guilford County, and I attributed only a fraction of their ancillary spending (on gas, food, miscellaneous retail, etc.) to the Science Center. These are very conservative assumptions, but they're reasonable given the nature of the study.

Kelly Quillen

December 7, 2009 - 11:47 am EST

It is not reasonable to compare the new Greensboro Aquatic Center (GAC) to the private TAC center in Cary. TAC is a stand-alone facility with none of the efficiencies GAC will share with the coliseum.

But aren't the real issues with facilities of this kind economic impact and community impact? The GAC has been painted as a project for the "swimming elite". On the contrary, this facility will benefit the community in general. Water therapy, life-safety, learn-to-swim programs for citizens of all ages and backgrounds who currently do not have access to these beneficial programs is part of the vision of this facility.

Will year-round swimmers use this facility? Sure. Will there be a positive economic benefit? You bet. Will the GAC help the effort to promote Greensboro as "Tournament Town"? You bet. Will the community benefit? Yes, and in ways not yet realized.

I imagine some of these same arguements were discussed when the coliseum itself was originally proposed many years ago....I hope city council has the wisdom and vision to proceed with the Aquatic Center for the good of the overall community.

Panacea

December 7, 2009 - 5:03 pm EST

The problem is, the "economic impact" can't be guaranteed, but the debt certainly can.

The numbers used to tout the economic impact are overblown. They won't pay the costs of building and running the center.

Swim boosters underestimated the costs, left out maintenance expenses, and don't really know how much economic impact the center will really have.

All they have to offer is smoke and mirrors.

Mick

December 7, 2009 - 5:37 pm EST

You may well be right Pan but have you even seen the CVB study?

How were maintenace costs left out? And left out of what?

Panacea

December 7, 2009 - 7:49 pm EST

Mick, here is what you said on December 3rd in "Council wants more facts about aquatic center" in regards to the CVB study:

"I didnt do the study. I havent seen the study. I couldnt cipher it if I had it in my hand. "

I repeat my response to that statement: If you can't understand the economic impact study, then your claims that the swim center will benefit Greensboro are not credible.

They were your words, Mick. I didn't make them up. http://www.news-record.com/content/2009/12/02/article/council_wants_more...

You are claiming benefits to the city based on data you yourself have not seen, and admit you would not understand. You are repeating secondhand information as if it were fact. It doesn't work that way.

City staff did an analysis and determined the city did not have the funds to maintain a pool, costs estimated to be between 300K and 400K per year. http://www.hoggsblog.com/?p=2490 Surely this information can't have been overlooked by Matt Brown?

To answer your other question, no I have not seen the CVB study. I tried to download Matt Brown's presentation, but I couldn't open the file. I've looked for the study but can't find a copy online. If you know a link, I'd love to look at it.

But truth is, I consider it biased and self serving until proven otherwise. The CVB commissioned a study to get results favorable to what they wanted. An independent study by a neutral party would have more weight.

Beachwalk

December 19, 2009 - 12:07 am EST

Ditto Pan.

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