news-record.com

OPINION

Nation’s foundation does not rest on religion

Sunday, November 22, 2009
(Updated 4:35 am)

To all who declare this to be like a Christian nation, please do your homework. Susan Griffith’s letter of Nov. 15 is not the first to perpetuate this inaccurate statement. Yes, many of the first to come to this country came to escape religious persecution and to worship as they pleased. This in itself is a powerful statement in support of separation of church and state and against the imposition of the majority religion on those whose beliefs differ.

The Declaration of Independence mentions “Nature’s God” and “Creator” once each (not throughout), and both expressions can as easily be understood to refer to natural processes as to a supernatural being. The Constitution, the law of the land, makes no mention of God at all. “In God We Trust” was put onto our money in the 1950s, during the McCarthy era, a shameful time of national cruelty and injustice.

The Treaty of Tripoli, ratified unanimously by Congress and signed by President John Adams in 1797, states specifically that “the government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” It was published in the media of the time and was completely noncontroversial.

Jane Blackburn
Greensboro

 

Comments

This letter has been closed to new comments. Comments are accepted on select letters to the editor between the hours of 7 AM and 5 PM, EDT, Monday through Friday.

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neocon

November 22, 2009 - 8:10 am EST

I'm so glad you were there talking and listening to the founders and have first hand knowledge on this subject, Ms. Blackburn. Now we can finally put this to rest...

Interested

November 22, 2009 - 8:32 am EST

Ms. Blackburn cites written documents. One needs only to read them to have "first hand knowledge" - no conversations necessary.

lilbean

November 22, 2009 - 8:41 am EST

Article 11 reads:

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
christian religion or christian values????

neocon

November 22, 2009 - 9:04 am EST

Any written document is subject to interpretation. Jane Blackburn and Susan Griffith have read the document and came away with differing opinions on what it means.

But Jane Blackburn speaks with such authority, I assume she has inside info denied the rest of us.

I take no sides on this. I believe a nation's government should not base it's foundation on religion. But I find it hypocritical that the same liberals who are so intolerant of christianity are bending over backwards so as not to offend the muslims who have vowed to rid the world of the christian infidels.

danagain

November 22, 2009 - 12:10 pm EST

"But I find it hypocritical that the same liberals who are so intolerant of christianity are bending over backwards so as not to offend the muslims who have vowed to rid the world of the christian infidels."

Regarding liberals bending over backwards so as not to offend Muslims, you may enjoy this op-ed by Michael Smerconish Neo. It was in todays print N&R but I can't find it on N&R Opinion Home.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20091121/GPG0706/91120042

neocon

November 22, 2009 - 1:05 pm EST

Even more to the point of victimhood and it's corrosive effect on America:

http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/article.cgi?article=338

dcolin

November 22, 2009 - 1:30 pm EST

"you may enjoy this op-ed by Michael Smerconish"

We almost agree on this ( dan and I ).

Mr Smerconish is mostly right.

Implementation is the problem.
We don't know how to handle it.

rightwingnemesis

November 22, 2009 - 1:41 pm EST

As for America's greatness, I think a lack of "national" religion is a plus. Found this article from Tom Friedman very thought provoking as we look ahead and not behind:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/opinion/22friedman.html?_r=1

danagain

November 22, 2009 - 12:15 pm EST

Not related to religion but Paul Krugman sat down with Allen Johnson. Krugman is not pleased with the Obama stimulus, he says we didn't borrow enough from the Chinese, shoulda done at least $500 billion more. Also recommends the govt. take over 80% of Citigroup.

http://www.news-record.com/content/2009/11/20/article/a_word_with_paul_k...

J D R

November 22, 2009 - 8:50 am EST

... as one that reportedly doesn't even go to church, why should you even care about the topic, Neo?

neocon

November 22, 2009 - 9:13 am EST

I don't care. I just thought my comment would provide you with a platform to launch into a history of Reagan, Bush, and Rove's role in the crusades.

J D R

November 22, 2009 - 10:41 am EST

'ppreciate the opportunity, Neo!

J.M.W.

November 22, 2009 - 12:04 pm EST

One cool thing about God is that he comes to you. It would be truly sad if church attendance was the only way to meet him. I'm sure there are many effective churches in this area, but in my own experience, most are filled with gum chewing bee-hived cattle that look at your shoes when you walk in. I met God the first time in Jan's House at three in the morning. He appeared through something someone said. And nobody was looking at my shoes.

rightwingnemesis

November 22, 2009 - 1:51 pm EST

Mr. JDR,
Ronald Reagan had the most dysfunctional family to occupy the White House but yet the sheep of the right, and more especially the religious right, seem to find him a Saint. In reality, I do not think most families would want to emulate the "family values" of the Reagan family. And like you, I find it curious that some bloke like neocon would hop on that train.
I laugh when I hear people wax sentimental about America being a "Christian" nation....especially in light of our fighting a war with a country that embraces religion as its government. Saw where the Bishop forbade Patrick Kennedy communion because of his pro choice stance. It may be the church's right to do so, but JFK made it plain 50+ years ago that he was not a tool of the Vatican--hopefully other Catholics will do the same. Ironic that a church that plays a shell game, hiding pedophile priests, would be so narrow as to not acknowledge an "imperfect humanity". Another reason separation of church and state must be protected.

J D R

November 22, 2009 - 5:12 pm EST

... I'm still waiting for Dan or SOMEONE to tell me what was so righteous about Reagan .. or Bush 43 for that matter.

lilbean

November 22, 2009 - 8:38 am EST

is not also amazing how the christophobic left uses the constitution when they need it, but spit on it when it doesn't serve their wants.
your godless "guvmint" knows whats best for you jane, do as they say and you and your family will be fine. question them and you will be deemed radical. all hail the imperalist godless "guvmint".

J D R

November 22, 2009 - 8:49 am EST

" .. uses the constitution when they need it, but spit on it when it doesn't serve their wants .."

Golly I'll be glad when you get over your Bush Derangment Syndrone.

rmacz

November 22, 2009 - 1:06 pm EST

At least people had jobs.

J D R

November 22, 2009 - 5:10 pm EST

How old are you? Joblessness reached a postwar high in 1982 .. reaching 12.0 million in December and with the rate of joblessness peaking at 10.8 percent.

"Manufacturing industries employed about one-fifth of the total nonagricultural work force in 1982."

http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1984/02/art2full.pdf

... AND ...

This was before the wholesale loss of jobs to NAFTA and China. Manufacturing was still core to America's strength.

That "one-fifth of the total nonagricultural work force in 1982" is of course 20%. I think it is now around 10%.

danagain

November 22, 2009 - 9:42 pm EST

JDR, you mention BDS, rmacz mentions jobs during the BDS admin and you jump back to Reagan.

overtaxed

November 22, 2009 - 10:14 pm EST

Dan, instead of taking JDR's link from above as the absolute truth ,I decided to read the entire article. I suggest you do the the same and you will see as usual he left out some interesting tidbits like this: "Aftermath
Recovery from one of the Nation's most severe recessions
since the 1930's was underway in the first half of 1983 ;
inflation had abated and interest rates had fallen enough to
induce some consumers to purchase large ticket items . The
degree to which consumers continue to increase spending
on a new car, house, or other major items will strongly
influence the strength of the recovery . However, despite the
step-up in production, capital spending has remained weak
during the first half of 1983, perhaps because manufacturers
recognize that consumer spending has not been consistently
strong in recent years . For example, the auto industry had
increased production levels substantially from a year earlier ;
but, while machine tool orders, often an early indicator of
trends in capital spending, were on the rise during the first
half of 1983, some manufacturers of autos and other goods
were delaying taking delivery of (and thereby actually purchasing)
new machine tools until demand for their own
products strengthened or until interest rates improved .
Employment losses in steel and auto manufacturing, and
in several of their supplier industries, are not solely the
result of the last cyclical downturn but also reflect a restructuring
of these basic industries to deal with increased foreign
competition, high wages, plant inefficiencies, and reduced
demand. Although recovery trends in autos and steel were
evident by late 1983, neither is expected to reattain previous
peak employment levels ."
Other durable goods industries, such as fabricated metals
and machinery, are not experiencing long-run secular declines
and are thus expected to resume their prerecession
growth patterns . The electric and electronic equipment industry,
in particular, is expected to grow quite rapidly during
the 1980's, consistent with the strong demand for computers
and telecommunications products . Despite projections of
rapid growth, this industry is expected to account for only
a small proportion of total future employment growth, because
it has a relatively small workforce with high productivity
. However, while there may not be a large number of
jobs created in firms producing electronic components, there
could be sizable job growth in industries using their products-
computer and data processing services, defenserelated
industries, communications services, petroleum and
natural gas extraction, and many more. Defense spending
should also boost the effects of the recovery in a number of
industries, but is more likely to benefit the community in
which a defense contractor is based rather than an industry
as a whole. In light of all these factors, the recovery of
durable goods industries from the 1980-82 recessionary
period could be slower and more calculated than during past
expansions."

danagain

November 22, 2009 - 10:24 pm EST

Never said I took JDR's link as absolute truth, just wondered why he jumped from GWB to RWR.

Yvonne

November 23, 2009 - 8:22 am EST

James also mentioned joblessness, Reagan and a number of other things. How do you know what rmacz's comment was in reference to? Just another case of you jumping to conclusions.

mawmaw

November 22, 2009 - 8:50 am EST

You can count on Neocon to make uninformed statements.

rightwingnemesis

November 22, 2009 - 1:57 pm EST

Ms. Mawmaw,
Nice bullseye on neo. The same can be said for his symbiotic twin Mr. danagain, but I maintain that at least neo has found concrete ways to buttress his own beliefs.

danagain

November 22, 2009 - 2:14 pm EST

Demon Deacon used to be sweeter on me Neo, now it's your turn with rightwinger. Congrats good buddy ;--)

neocon

November 22, 2009 - 4:13 pm EST

You've still got dcolin following you around whining like a lovesick puppy because he doesn't know your name, what you do, how much $ you earn, how many bowel movements you have per week, what the secret device is...(I've outed you on another thread on this matter) :]

'I have to chuckle' when I see the nemesis weighing in on a given subject and accusing others of 'regurgitating the pundits from the day before'. He/she is a hypocrite of the first order.

danagain

November 22, 2009 - 4:52 pm EST

Yeah but rightwinger is more Demondeaconesque, pontificating petty tirades from top of the ivory tower of liberal elitism in an attempt to woo the audience with his self-perceived vast intellectual superiority. Reminds me of the king in the Wizard of ID comic strip.

dcolin, alas, does follow me around in the persistent quest of learning my DNA. Lately he has some weird posts about me being bitter and ashamed of what I do for a living, don't ask me why.

I think you have the more colorful of the two, but we both know neither can come close to matching DD. Here is one of my all time favorites back from June '06, enjoy the memory:

"Oh, and don't come after my patriotism Dan, you little tin horn flag waver. I have a right to disagree just as much as you have a right to stick your nose up George Bush's a**! "

neocon

November 22, 2009 - 8:11 pm EST

Yeah, I kinda miss the daily "you are nothing but a toothless, retarded hick with last night's supper on the front of his shirt who got a computer for Christmas" routine. The 'tin horn flag waver' is a classic, but he will be forever be linked to 'flaggate'.

He made a big deal of knowing Kay 'n Chip and when she got elected, he disappeared. Are we to think he is now rubbing elbows with Dingy Harry and John Kerry? (btw, rumour has it that Kerry served in Vietnam, can you confirm this?)

danagain

November 22, 2009 - 9:25 pm EST

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