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NEWS

Is swim center worth the cost?

Saturday, November 21, 2009
(Updated 7:48 am)

GREENSBORO — Sometimes, you have to spend money to make money.

But in the case of a planned aquatics center, which proponents say would dwarf other competitive swim facilities on the East Coast and pump $14 million into the city’s economy in one year, the question is how much taxpayers can afford.

After a public hearing set for Dec. 1, the City Council will vote on whether to go ahead with a $17.4 million, three-pool complex on the grounds of the coliseum complex.

Voters approved $12 million in 2008 for a community swim center, with the expectation that private partnerships would make up the fund balance. But other than a commitment for an electronic scoreboard, this has not occurred.

Among the council’s options: To proceed with the more ambitious plan for a metal and glass facility built to accommodate 2,000 people and draw national meets with a competition-size pool, warmup pool and dive pool; or scale back to a $12 million competitive community swim center, about half the size of the larger plan.

On the “pro” side of the more ambitious plan, supporters argue that a first-rate competition facility could easily capture a niche for Greensboro, doing what Bryan Park did for youth soccer and what an expanded Greensboro Coliseum did for ACC basketball.

“The lifeline to the Greensboro hospitality industry is youth sports,” James Belk, chairman of the Guilford County Tourism Development Authority, told the City Council in a briefing last week.

“Youth sports are recession-proof. Parents will travel to their children’s competitions.”

Though the project appears to have broad support from the council, which voted last week to fund debt service from future hotel-motel taxes, two members raised points on the “con” side.

The three-pool plan for a competitive aquatics facility, observed Councilwoman T. Dianne Bellamy-Small, goes beyond the original idea of a community facility voters approved.

Bellamy-Small is seeking assurance that the center not be an “elitist” facility that becomes so heavily booked with competitive events that the people who built it — local taxpayers — won’t get to use it.

Councilwoman Trudy Wade, meanwhile, cautioned that the cost of maintaining such a facility had not been addressed. She argued that there should have been a more aggressive attempt to involve private sponsorship.

“Here we’re being left again with the taxpayers,” said Wade, evoking the case of the War Memorial Auditorium renovation. “Everybody wants it, but nobody wants to pay for it.”

One factor in the project’s favor, unexpectedly, is the recession itself.

After reducing the estimated cost by $2.4 million, the city also would save more than $2 million by using land and existing infrastructure at the coliseum.

“In a few years, we would be back up to $23, $24, $25 million when the prices of steel, concrete and masonry go back up,” said Butch Simmons, director of Engineering and Inspections. “What would really set us apart is that third pool.”

Richard Bober, a longtime competitive swimmer from Greensboro, noted that the top facility on the East Coast, in Fort Lauderdale, has been damaged by hurricanes, leaving an opening for what he called a “class A” facility.

Councilman Robbie Perkins said the original idea had been a “leap of faith” on the part of the council, a chance to bring what coliseum director Matt Brown called “an economic engine” to the ailing High Point Road corridor.

With youth sports and tourism growing industries amid otherwise discouraging economic news, Mayor Yvonne Johnson said, the project is an opportunity for the city.

“It strengthens our position as a tournament town,” Johnson said. “I bet we would exceed the $14 million (estimated economic impact.) But $14 million’s all right by me.”

Contact Lorraine Ahearn at 373-7334 or lorraine.ahearn@news-record.com 

Accompanying Photos

WANT TO GO?

What: Public hearing on aquatics center

When: 4 p.m. Dec. 1

Where: Council Chambers, Melvin Municipal Office Building, 300 W. Washington St., Greensboro

Comments

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onbe1kanoby

November 21, 2009 - 3:27 am EST

Please do this Greensboro.. You have miss out on some many other chance to put your name out there!

Fred

November 21, 2009 - 6:43 am EST

THE ISSUE WAS HIDDEN ON THE BALLOT!
Many, probably most voters didn't realize they were voting for a swim center and had earlier rejected it when it was honestly presented. My term for it is FRAUD.

tim tribbett

November 21, 2009 - 6:51 am EST

It is a luxury that we are borrowing money to build.It never passed on it's own so they had to sneak it into a bond. It was a shameful act and now they are saying it will cost millions more than estimated. Why should taxpayer money be used for something like this that will benefit only a small ammount of the population? There are many things that would be nice to have but if you don't have the money to get them it is irresponsible to do so. The local govt is like a teenager with a credit card running up debt except this is debt we will all have to pay.(or those of us who pay property taxes will anyway)

jeffic_fail

November 21, 2009 - 7:06 am EST

The best way to fix High Point Road/Lee Street: Raze the Section 8 housing and clean up the crime and prostitution. Jeffic Fail!

speakup2

November 21, 2009 - 7:29 am EST

If this was voted down once and then snuck back in, there is No Way that it should go forward...It is one thing to use a little Tax money to help a few, but this is a huge amount to help only a few. With all of the decent jobs drying up people are going to have to get use to having very little from now on, including our officials who think that they have a bottomless pit full of money. If the people that earn the money are having to tighten belts the ones in office need to tighten theirs three times as much. The nerve of these people.

Panacea

November 21, 2009 - 7:34 am EST

This project was a bad idea when it first started, and now they want to revise it?!?!?!?

Outrageous. The pool supporters have some nerve. First they trick voters by sneaking it into the Park and Rec bond, then they take it away from Park and Rec, and now they want to go beyond their original idea?

And they think they can build a more ambitious project for 17 million, when comparable facilities cost much more than that?

How stupid do these people think we are?

Greensboro can't afford this project. Scrap it.

igliigli

November 21, 2009 - 8:07 am EST

The swim center should be canceled and the money used for schools.

Oona

November 21, 2009 - 9:47 am EST

agreed!

GsoFan

November 21, 2009 - 10:20 am EST

This money can't be used for our schools. It is a City project. The schools are funded by the County and State. City residents support their schools by paying their county taxes.

dhoggard

November 21, 2009 - 8:12 am EST

fatboy1

November 21, 2009 - 8:32 am EST

Parks and Rec did not get robbed. They suggested that the bond be presented as it was and was very supportive. The swim center was not hidden maybe you folks need to read the bond before you vote for them next time.

Check out how many swimmers are active at clubs, the YMCAs, and neighberhood pools or just drive by Lindley pool during City Meet then tell me this center will only support a small, elite part of Greensboro. Would you rather invest in something that you are sure to get a return on or would you rather pour money in more Civil Rights Museums which may never open? At least you know where the money is going in this case.

Panacea

November 21, 2009 - 10:20 am EST

Yeah, down the drain. Literally.

The pool was put in a Parks and Rec bond. But Parks and Rec won't be building or operating it. I think that's illegal; it is definitely not the intent of voters.

I'll concede I should have read the bond issue more carefully. That doesn't justify the dirty trick played to get it passed; everyone knew voters didn't want this pool. But thank you, for teaching me to read all bonds with a fine toothed comb in the future. No doubt I will be more reluctant to vote for such issues in the future, since I can't be sure my will as a voter will be honored. Happy now?

Since there are all these pools that you mention, why does Greensboro need yet another? I swim at the Ragsdale Y, it has a very nice pool that's practically new. Why do I need to spend my tax money to build a pool that ordinary citizens will never get to use?

Build the pool yourself.

Mick

November 21, 2009 - 4:30 pm EST

That would be a private facility.

Panacea

November 21, 2009 - 4:51 pm EST

That wouldn't break my heart

speakup2

November 21, 2009 - 2:39 pm EST

Actually I would rather my money go towards Neither...How about allowing the tax payer to keep their own money?

Gso Resident

November 21, 2009 - 8:49 am EST

At this weeks council meeting Matt Brown did not answer Trudy Wade's questions....at all. He just presented smoke and mirrors. This was a real turn off for me and a strong indicator of what's forthcoming from the city at every turn for this project.

They'll be significant push back by the citizens. When you're just plain lied to, they'll big shadows over the whole project. This is not what we pay or elect our servants to do.

I would vote against it today. We just can't afford it.

I still can't understand why it can't be called the Wrangler, USA Today, CNN Swim Center or something else ?

Why do we never hear about selling naming rights ?

Mick

November 21, 2009 - 4:31 pm EST

Did you vote against it last time?

Naming rights has been mentioned and will probably be pursued at some point.

jeaniegnc

November 21, 2009 - 9:08 am EST

If you would like to know how all of this mess got started, read Hogg's Blog and he traces this from start to finish. This will clarify the progression of the Swim Center and probably make you very angry as it did me. It has been known from the very beginning that the cost was approximately $20,000,000.00 and that no one had figured in the cost to run the facility at another $400,000.00 yearly. How dishonest can our government get?

If the outgoing city council votes to fund this additional amount, we should all remember those names at election time. The outgoing city council should not be placing this burden on the new incoming city council.

Panacea

November 21, 2009 - 10:22 am EST

I didn't need to read Hogg's Blog to get angry. I got angry as soon as I read about the pool in the N&R after the election.

The arrogance of pool supporters, their unapologetic glee at having pulled one over on us, has kept me angry every since.

dhoggard

November 21, 2009 - 9:42 am EST

"They (P&R) suggested that the bond be presented as it was and was very supportive". Not altogether true, Fatboy.

I was Chair of the P&R Commission at the time. One Commissioner resigned after our recommendations were dismissed by Council and few were happy about it. We presented a proposal to include a $10M indoor pool (not a competitive venue) in a possible **2012** bond - and, even with that, we expressed great concerns about putting anything out there until we could attain literal and philosophical buy-in from the swim community.

None of that happened.

I'm not really all that against a Swim Center - I do have some real problems with the way we got here, though. It should have been presented and funded as the economic development project that it really is, not snuck in under the cover of a P&R project - which it is not anymore. The War Memorial Commission now owns it.

cook2712

November 21, 2009 - 11:13 am EST

Build it and they will come......one thing is a lot of people are wanting to leave Greensboro and Guilford county because of the tax's and the "we will do it and dont care if the residents of the city (tax payers) want/like it or not" !!!
How much more can we pay for?? Maybe we should let the swim community pay for it.....just a thought :-)

Jeremiah

November 21, 2009 - 11:28 am EST

The pool bond passed. It is up to voters to stay informed. No wool got pulled over anyone's eyes. That said, they need to live within their means or raise the rest of the money privately. It is as simple as that.

Gso Resident

November 21, 2009 - 11:50 am EST

Greensboro paid for all this extra water......now they need somewhere to put it.....?

speakup2

November 21, 2009 - 2:43 pm EST

Very good point here!...Greensboro barely has enough water to drink half the time. Yet they want to build a huge pool?..LMAO

Mick

November 21, 2009 - 4:33 pm EST

Taken care of.

Don Stowe

November 21, 2009 - 1:05 pm EST

I did read the bond proposition carefully, then voted against it. This is just another indication of how the social engineers (Socialistic?) have no thought for the future. They spend money for pie in the sky projects with no regard for the lack of ability to pay it back.

The city and county has no business dabbling in the entertainment business, the recreation business, show business, and tourism business. If there is a demand for such things, and if it is self sustaining, then private capital will be spent to provide it. A good example of that is the Four Seasons complex. Back when the city of Greensboro politicians wanted to build a convention center, private investors beat them to it. Four Seasons has been making a profit for years. The money pit called Greensboro Colisieum has lost money every year. The excuse is for losing money is, "It was not intended to make a profit." Why Not?

We made a good start on improvement by throwing some of the council out of office. Let's hold the new ones accountable. Show that we are mad as hell and won't take it any more.

Mick

November 21, 2009 - 4:35 pm EST

Few if any parks, marinas, CVM, auditorium makes monet as a stand alone business. More money that thge buildings are not creditied does copme into the city though via taxes, etc.

dcolin

November 21, 2009 - 2:57 pm EST

You know Greensboro has one of the best/finest public golf facilities in the world.
In the world! It is so good that the United States Golf Association is going to have one of it's major tournaments
here in 2010. It is Bryan Park.

Now the Bryan Foundation ( Mr Bryan ) paid for almost all the construction costs,
property costs, and recent upgrades. It cost our city practically nothing for this superb facility.

We had to turn the running of it back over to the foundation a few years ago because the city
was letting it go to pot. This is something that we essentially got for free and our people could not manage it.

Now this pack of incompetents people want to spend money on a swim facility that will benefit very few.
Primarily those with moss on their necks and web feet.

Competitive swimming is hardly the great American pass time

Some tourism guy says youth sports are recession proof.

Kill it dead.

onbe1kanoby

November 21, 2009 - 4:32 pm EST

Why are you guys think so small. Greensboro is not a small town! It's a city... and only because it's not on the WEST side of town.. you are saying no..

Mick

November 21, 2009 - 4:41 pm EST

Actually I believe swimming is one of the fastest growing activities in America today. Maybe with a decent public facility we will see some of that. I think there are close to two thousand kids that swim in the Community Swim Association every year. Private clubs, high schools, masters swimming, etc will all be able to expand as well.

There are a lot of good arguments against the pool and the process. But saying we have adequate public facilities now or that kids dont swim doesnt fly.

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