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If $1 trillion is just a start, where will spending end?

Letter
Comments (19)

Monday, November 16, 2009

(Updated 3:00 am)

Congressman Brad Miller is quoted in your Nov. 10 edition saying, “The health care system is too badly broken to fix in one fell swoop, but this bill is a solid start.”

So, spending more than $1 trillion gets us a start! Does Miller care to estimate what it will cost to get the job done? Two trillion? Three trillion? Is there any bottom to the wild and crazy spending in this Congress? Does Miller run this kind of financial control in his house? If not, why must he do it in our house?

Congressman, we are broke; we are in debt up to our ears; many of us are out of work. Where will the money come from? The drain is clogged and we need to flush the big spenders out of this Congress.

John Trovato
Greensboro

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J D R

November 16, 2009 - 6:14 am EST

Winston-Salem's Journal has an article that should be considered a warning shot across the bow:

http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2009/nov/16/many-fear-health-cuts/new...

huck

November 16, 2009 - 8:26 am EST

Great article, JDR. This should be a warning to those who want a public option implemented before our country can afford it. These paragraphs in particular caught my attention:

"'Radiologists and other doctors expressed concern that the new regulations are burdensome, and that some Medicaid patients may not get the scans they need. They also said that it will create more work for doctors to go through the process of getting each scan pre-approved.

"They're making physicians who are earning less per patient do more in order to get what's needed for the patient," said Dr. Valerie Jewell, the president of the N.C. American College of Radiology.

"And I'm very much concerned that physicians will throw up their hands and say, ‘I'm just not dealing with this anymore; they can just go to the ER.'"

And people don't think rationing will occur???

J D R

November 16, 2009 - 5:14 pm EST

"And people don't think rationing will occur???"

Let me be clear:

The only reason "rationing will occur" .. why it is happening in NC now .. is because we don't have the money. While I am against the current proposals because they do little to nothing to limit costs, there certainly is room for considerable improvement.

We don't have the money for two reason - equally valid. The Democrats have stereotypically re-distributed money from Federal Coffers to the people. The Republicans have stereotypically stopped money from going into the Federal Coffers. Neither party cares 'cause it's only paper.

My Broken Record is this:

If we simply made everyone play by the same rules, the Republicans would not be able ro stop money from going into the Federal Coffers. Those currently skipping over the contribution basket would stop the Democrats from re-distributing money to the people.

THEN .. There may or may not be money in the cofferes .. but what is there might have a chance to be spent wisely - for example on cost effective preventative care measures.

Beachwalk

November 16, 2009 - 3:37 pm EST

Great Article JDR.

WSJ article quote;
"Another new Medicaid restriction targets radiological tests, such as ultrasounds, CT scans and MRIs. Starting this month, before a Medicaid recipient can get one of these tests, the test will have to be approved by a private management company that has a contract with the state."

The very things the democrats said were not going to happen are happening.
More government control
Less service.
Longer service
And only those who can afford to pay will get treatment.

danagain

November 16, 2009 - 6:31 am EST

Obama is in China telling them we need more jobs over here. I'm sure our owner is listening.

J D R

November 16, 2009 - 7:12 am EST

... shoulda listened to the local broken record ...

xeno10

November 16, 2009 - 7:35 am EST

LTTE writers, Zimmerman, Williams, Dilday, and Travato, House Democrats have a health care reform proposal, and Senate Democrats have their own reform proposal. Also, House Republicans revealed their health care plan awhile ago. And now we need to find out what (if ever anything) Senate Republicans will offer! Now, this weekend, Senator Gregg Judd (R-NH) said that the GOP "alternatives," which they will offer as amendments to Democrats' health legislation, "DON'T COST MONEY." (Achtung, Mr. Travato!) So, it simply stands to reason, Republicans are exceptional "miracle workers," "magicians extraordinaire'!" Or they simply intend to ignore the tens of millions of Americans who currently lack health care coverage! Gregg ( a typical GOP "winger") also said that "Republicans know from experience that their ideas would "produce effectively delivered cost service." (ahem...) So, if there is one thing Republicans have "experience" with, is improving health care delivery efficiently and effectively! OoooKaaay! But, has that ever happened? Yep, GOP "alternatives" don't cost money -- they cost lives!! And the polls await! Seriously.

ghost from white oak

November 16, 2009 - 8:27 am EST

We could perhaps get a small idea of how much their start up cost might really end up, by looking back at Medicare.
It was projected to cost about $ 7 billion, when in reality cost were about $66 billion.
They are not very good at projecting cost on much of anything. Then once put into place, they tend go ever higher in the future.

J D R

November 16, 2009 - 12:28 pm EST

This supports you, Ghost:
http://www.forhealthfreedom.org/Publications/MedicareMedicaid/miscalcula...

As does this
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3700

But I would argue there is a fourth element - still biting us - now that helps explaing the discrepency - and that is the improved procedures and medicines available .. a couple examples:

Heart Transplants - Hip & Knee Replacements - MRI's - Erectile Disfunction - Etc. .... all "unheard of" in 1965 and most routine these days .. so routine they are now "demanded".

Here are some costs:

Transplant expense
Organ Cost Range Average Cost
Heart $50,000 - $287,000 $148,000
Kidney $25,000 - $130,000 $51,000
Liver $66,000 - $367,000 $235,000
Pancreas $51,000 - $135,000 $70,000
Heart/Lung $135,000 - $250,000 $210,000

http://www.chfpatients.com/tx/transplant.htm

Good history - http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj16n3-3.html
... and http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3700

Interesting reading: - http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/63xx/doc6332/05-03-MediSpending.pdf

Yvonne

November 16, 2009 - 8:52 am EST

True story: When I went to work at Baptist in 1990, I noticed there were lots of waste of supplies. Having worked at another, more cost conservative hospital for years prior to going to Baptist, I was appalled that there seemed to be little effort to contain costs. I made a list of ways to conserve. I was told the hospital received x number of dollars a year from the government and if we did not use all the allotted funds, the next year we would receive less. Thus, we were encouraged to use all we got. To me, this meant there was no incentive to try to contain costs.

What this says to me now is the government is going to give all hospitals less, thereby necessitating more conservative behaviors. Is this bad? IMHO, we should be able to trim the fat without butchering the patients. There HAVE been terrible wastes of resources when times were better. No one likes to go backwards but if we are to survive, we're gonna have to make concessions. If that means letting nature take it's course in terminal cases, so be it. If it means grandma will only live to ninety rather than 91, so be it. If it means some will receive one less test, so be it. I do not mean to sound callous. However, we cannot, as a nation, keep pretending that we can save everyone nor should we try.

Most who post here keep forgetting or keep deliberately misleading people about the trillion dollars. It is not a lump sum payment.

Beachwalk

November 16, 2009 - 4:06 pm EST

So why doesn't the government cut the waste of supplies that you talked about, Pass tort reform, which will reduce the "unnecessary" test that doctor perform, just to cover their behind, Allow insurance companies to compete across state lines, which will reduce cost through competition? These things can be done without a complete take over of healthcare by our government, who has proven with its past performance that they can't efficiently run anything.

And I don't care if the trillion dollars is one lump sum or not. It's still a TRILLION DOLLARS (and climbing).

J D R

November 16, 2009 - 5:03 pm EST

What drives me nuts is the hyper crap over this and the relative quietness over the exact same boondoggle that happened in 2003 ... and no I'm not tlaking about Iraq but Med Part "D". Here we are starting a second war (with scant evidence but that's another thread) .. and we start with very little discussion and a lot of back door dealing on a $750 Billion over 10 year G-Man giveaway.

OK Ok - you'll say "I was against that too" ... well maybe .. but here's what Rush was saying about the current $750 Billion over 10 year G-Man giveaway:

"AMERICA HAS NEVER BEEN UNDER ATTACK LIKE THIS .. AMERICA FACES THE LOSS OF GREATNESS".

I can quote 'cause I took notes.

If Limpballs didn't say the exact same thing in the Fall of 2003 .. then he is a partisan jerk .. wait we already knew that.

xeno10

November 16, 2009 - 5:02 pm EST

beachwalk, you and your kind on this site, and the consistently ignorant, uniformed comments re health care reform, will soon be "kicked to the curb!" So I suggest you begin to prepare right now for the State of the Union Address in January, when President Obama will stand in the well and praise the passage of DEMOCRATIC Health Care Reform legislation!!! Wise up, unwise person! Seriously.

danagain

November 16, 2009 - 5:09 pm EST

"So I suggest you begin to prepare right now for the State of the Union Address in January, when President Obama will stand in the well and praise the passage of DEMOCRATIC Health Care Reform legislation!!!"

So now it's next year eh? What happened to by this Fall?

zeus80
September 3, 2009 - 1:58 pm EDT
"Unenlightened sawdust, dusty sawdust, just watch President Obama's poll numbers go up, uP, UP after the "Ted Kennedy Health Care Act" is passed this fall! B E T C H A! And there's no doubt about it, dusty!"

What happened to by Christmas?

zeus80
October 20, 2009 - 4:06 am EDT
"Dr. Kernodle, worry not! Common sense will prevail! And DEMOCRATIC health care reform will happen! Yes it will! Before Christmas, 2009!"

Fall, Christmas, now January. What's next, Valentine's Day?

Priceless.

xeno10

November 16, 2009 - 5:35 pm EST

WHOA, danagain, danny boy! The DEMOCRATIC Health Care Reform legislation will pass by Christmas, 2009! No change in the time-line! And President Obama will have a whole lot (I hope) to say about it in the State of the Union Address! Wake up, man! (who's zeus80?) Seriously.

danagain

November 16, 2009 - 5:50 pm EST

I've saved today's post to add to the collection truman. Thanks for the entertainment.

From the fair and balanced MSNBC here is the opinion of Harry Reid:

No floor debate scheduled
Democrats did not line up to challenge him. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has yet to schedule floor debate and hinted last week that senators may not be able to finish health care this year.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33748707/ns/politics-health_care_reform/

xeno10

November 17, 2009 - 4:53 am EST

"again, dan," the DEMOCRATIC Health Care Reform legislation will be a Christmas gift for you and your family -- in 2009! So you think that Harry Reid (Senate Majority Leader) knows more about this matter than I do? Never happen! Seriously.

Badgolfer1

November 16, 2009 - 7:37 pm EST

Come on now Billy boy.
Being eighty years old means you are now probably (no most definitely) forgetting the alias names that you have used in the past.
Please write this one down (xeno10) so you remember the current one.
Seriously.

Badgolfer1

November 16, 2009 - 10:08 pm EST

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned yet Obama stating the healthcare reform bill will have to be deficit neutral, otherwise he will not sign it. Plus it would have to fall within 900 billion range according to him.