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OPINION

Today’s rap much worse than any golden oldies

Thursday, October 29, 2009
(Updated 3:00 am)

Allen Johnson, whose assertion that “oldie goldies” have nothing on today’s rappers (column, Oct. 25), must be off his rocker.

His comparisons of songs like “My Ding- a-Ling” by Chuck Berry and “Mary Jane” by Rick James have nothing on a little ditty by Gucci Mane entitled “Cuttin Off Fingaz.” Since Johnson didn’t do his research, the lyrics go as follows: “I’m Gucci Mane Laflare./ I tow da’ Glock like a cop do./ We don’t talk to strangaz, we cop’ bangaz!/ Trappin at night man it might get dangerous! /I’m from east Atlanta where they cuttin off fingaz.”

Wise up, sir.

Tommy Sink
Browns Summit

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unknown

October 29, 2009 - 3:58 am EDT

I agree with Mr. Sink. Violence. Vulgarity. Disrespect for authority. Spewed in rhyme & rhythm.

J Peterman Reality Tour

October 29, 2009 - 8:30 am EDT

As long as they keep killing themselves in the process . . . I advocate letting fools idolize the trash they produce. The quicker they self expire the quicker our world will become a better place.

gsostudent

October 29, 2009 - 11:55 am EDT

"Disrespect for authority. Spewed in rhyme & rhythm."

WHERE DO I SIGN UP?!?!?!?!?!?

Lakeshia

October 29, 2009 - 4:57 am EDT

Editorial page editor Allen Johnson's assertion that today's rap music is no worse than "goldie oldies' was little more than a self-serving attempt to justify and absolve the foul and abhorrent behavior too often exhibited by today's minority youths -
Allen next will be telling you that today's low hanging baggy pants are the same as yesterday's penny loafers -

danagain

October 29, 2009 - 8:24 am EDT

"we cop’ bangaz!"

It's depressing to witness the increasing depravity of this country. First the beating an murder of a young man in Chicago as others looked on. Then this weekend the brutal 2 1/2 hour gang rape of a 15 year old girl in CA as others looked on and even joined in. No one called the police for 2 1/2 hours, can you imagine what that girl went through?

I can't prove it, but my thoughts are that rap music with lyrics like "we cop bangaz", ho this and ho that help fuel the thuggish mentality of these people.

Anyone who defends such music is part of the problem.

gsostudent

October 29, 2009 - 11:59 am EDT

Oh for a second I thought you were referring to the police murder of Oscar Grant in Oakland. But then I thought, maybe he's talking about any one of the thousands of people who are brutalized and murdered by police in this country?
It's no wonder that people hate the police- the cops are just tools for rich white people like you. What will you say next? "Maybe if these black people listened to white music they'd lift themselves out of the lower class."

You have no understanding of the systems we're living in and clearly you just buy into all of the media hype about isolated incidents of violence rather than looking at the institutional violence inherent in our society.

danagain

October 29, 2009 - 1:50 pm EDT

"It's no wonder that people hate the police- the cops are just tools for rich white people like you."

Got it, so I guess I'll add you to those who wouldn't call the police if you saw a kid getting beaten to death or a girl getting gang raped for a couple hours.

Please tell me about the "systems we are living in".

Isolated incidents of violence? Pulleeeezzze. Interesting stats:

Racial differences exist, with blacks disproportionately represented among homicide victims and offenders.

In 2005, homicide victimization rates for blacks were 6 times higher than the rates for whites.

In 2005, offending rates for blacks were more than 7 times higher than the rates for whites.

And go down to the chart about homicides by race of offender and victim. 94% of black victims were killed by blacks.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

The stats did exclude those murdered on 9/11 but no mention of the thousands who are brutalized and murdered by the police. Do you have those stats? How many thousands?

rahrah

October 29, 2009 - 6:26 pm EDT

Do you have a breakdown of homicides based on level of income?

dcolin

October 29, 2009 - 7:27 pm EDT

Rah,

Your on the right track.

Danagain Stats are fact.
Undeniable.
However they don't necessarily link with cause and effect.

It is hard/wrong for me to conclude from the stats that race causes violence

This again points out how statistics tell nothing about individual items.
Only probabilities within groups

danagain

October 29, 2009 - 8:32 pm EDT

"It is hard/wrong for me to conclude from the stats that race causes violence."

I never said that David.

Do you think that rap or other music that glorifies drug/alcohol use and violence against women and police has a positive effect on young people?

dcolin

October 29, 2009 - 10:36 pm EDT

1) I never said you said that.
However many people imply it,

2) No it certainly would not have a positive effect.
That said, so what.
You can't ban it

Conundrum

October 29, 2009 - 10:58 am EDT

Dan, you have a very simplistic way of looking at this issue. If I follow your logic, then Hitler must have been listening to Jay-Z when he murdered six million Jews and Stalin must have certainly been listening to Tupac when he killed six million of his countrymen. Or better yet, what was Tim McVeigh listening to that would cause him to blow up a federal building and kill children? If I am not mistaken, just in sheer numbers, white teenage males make up the largest buyers of rap music. So, using your school of logic, wouldn’t there be an uptick in violent acts in this group?

Gang violence is nothing new in this country. New York had a history of violent youth gangs in the 1800s. Just like with the recent murder of Derrion Albert in Chicago, these very misguided youth fought over nothing of any consequence. Some of the kids in the Chicago fight come from the Altgeld Gardens community. Altgeld is a Chicago Public Housing community that even the Chicago Police are afraid to patrol. As a matter of fact, the police have pretty much written it off. I am not condoning the behavior of the kids who fought in Chicago, but, these kids have nothing. They have no education to speak of and their home life is probably not much to brag about. What they do have, is a perverse desire to hold onto the last bit of dignity that they have, and that dignity is tied into fighting over turf that any reasonable person would not have any vested interest in.

Yes, there are some rap lyrics that are vulgar and misogynistic. But, if you think about this gang mentality and people not reporting this very pathological behavior to the authorities, the history of the South is rife with lynching photos that show an almost picnic like atmosphere. It is well known that some who attended lynchings collected souvenirs as if they were sightseeing. So, don’t get too self righteous when it comes to dissecting the behavior of cultures that you are not familiar with. And this familiarity doesn’t come from living next door to an African American neighbor who is probably a first generation college graduate who has done better financially than his or her parents. Your neighbor doesn’t have to fight over some drug infested, poverty plagued piece of nothing.

danagain

October 29, 2009 - 11:41 am EDT

Condundrum, I didn't say rap music and lyrics caused in the criminal activities noted. What I did say is the music could contribute to the thuggish mentality, not actions, of some people by glorifying deviant behavior. This study is interesting:

""While we don't fully understand the relationship between music preferences and behavioral outcomes, our study shows that young people may be influenced by frequent exposure to music lyrics that make positive references to substance abuse and violence," Meng-Jinn said.

Recent studies of popular music reveal that nearly half of rap/hip hop songs mentioned alcohol as compared to 10 percent or less of other popular genres. Nearly two-thirds of rap songs mentioned illicit drugs as compared with one-tenth of songs from other genres. Rap and rock music videos depict violence twice as often as other music genres."

http://www.hiphoppress.com/2006/04/rap_listeners_p.html

Even though your Hitler and Stalin analogies aren't valid they are creative, Hitler listening to Jay-Z.

Why do the kids at Altgeld Gardens have nothing? Because they are the offspring of people who rely on govt. for their sustenance, most of whom are poor unwed mothers with no father around? The cycle continues from generation to generation.

You of course link back to lynchings and I'm surprised you didn't mention slavery. Both are horrible stains on our country but have been corrected. It wasn't just black people who put a black man in the White House.

As you ascertain that I am not allowed to comment on black people since I am not black, perhaps you can help me out? Why are 70% of black children born out of wedlock? Why does the cycle of poverty for black (and others) dependent on govt. perpetuate? Not enough money? Why are my neighbors kids in advanced learning classes at school while my "little brother" is mediocre in school and has terrible language skills? Thanks for your help.

J Peterman Reality Tour

October 29, 2009 - 12:42 pm EDT

Hahahaha . . . hey Condum . . . I want you to see something in a very tiny mirror I carry around with me . . . made especially for folks like you . . . I call it looking into the face a racism . . . and I don't charge a thing for you to look into it but ask that you remember what you saw in it.

Conundrum

October 29, 2009 - 6:31 pm EDT

Dan, I would imagine that the reason that 70% of black children are born out of wedlock is because marriage is obviously not a prerequisite for childbearing according to the mothers of these children. For the other 30%, it is.

Going by what you've said about your plane and your station in life, I would assume that your neighbors' children are economically sound enough to provide a stimulating enviroment for their kids; therefore, their kids will do welll in school. Plus, their parents have done well educationally, so, they are passing on that work ethic to their kids.

Here are some interesting tidbits about education and African American kids:

"Poor and minority schools are staffed by the least qualified teachers."

"Poor and minority schools are more likely to have teachers who teach in a subject area where they don't have a major or minor."

"On average, African American 12th grade students read at about the same level as white eighth-graders."

The field is not very level. Is it?

danagain

October 29, 2009 - 8:14 pm EDT

"Dan, I would imagine that the reason that 70% of black children are born out of wedlock is because marriage is obviously not a prerequisite for childbearing according to the mothers of these children. For the other 30%, it is."

Good math skills conundrum. And would you imagine that children born out of wedlock, many with absent fathers and poor mothers, are more inclined to not excel in school, get into trouble, and continue the cycle?

"Going by what you've said about your plane and your station in life, I would assume that your neighbors' children are economically sound enough to provide a stimulating enviroment for their kids; therefore, their kids will do welll in school. Plus, their parents have done well educationally, so, they are passing on that work ethic to their kids."

I'm not sure what my plane has to do with my neighbors kids success in school, but here is possibly the difference. My neighbors are a mom AND a dad. The dad works and the mom stays at home and takes care of the kids. Both are strict disciplinarians and very involved in their childrens lives.

My little brother has a mom in jail and a dad with alcohol and violence problems. He is being raised by his grandmother although his dad lives in the house. His dad allows him to play violent videos like Grand Theft Auto and also gets drunk to the point that the grandmother and children have to spend the night in a motel.

Here are some interesting tidbits about education and African American kids:

"Poor and minority schools are staffed by the least qualified teachers."

"Poor and minority schools are more likely to have teachers who teach in a subject area where they don't have a major or minor."

"On average, African American 12th grade students read at about the same level as white eighth-graders."

The field is not very level. Is it?

So you blame the problem entirely on the schools? Do they need more money?

I just illustrated an example in which home life is a major factor also. Would you agree?

rahrah

October 29, 2009 - 8:23 pm EDT

I'm short on time...so I'll just ask, why is his home life like that?

danagain

October 29, 2009 - 8:28 pm EDT

That would be because he is the offspring of irresponsible and/or absent parents. This is not unique to the black race but more prevalent with the 70% out of wedlock birth rate. Not to say it's an automatic recipe for failure, the "little brother" I had in the 90's had a father who deserted the family. His mom however was educated and, again, a disciplinarian. He grew up educated and joined to Navy to continue his education and skills.
'

rahrah

October 29, 2009 - 9:46 pm EDT

why are his parents absent or irresponsible?

danagain

October 29, 2009 - 10:03 pm EDT

That would be because his mom is in jail, I don't know why they don't mention it, and his father has alcohol and violence problems. I thought you were in a hurry.

rahrah

October 29, 2009 - 6:36 pm EDT

"It wasn't just black people who put a black man in the White House"

Post-racial America, Dan?

Anyway....

There's a lot of crap-rap music out there...and it's grown worse with time. There's a lot of good rap out there, vulgarities and all, that paint an accurate picture of inner city life and relate that struggle to the rest of us. After all, most folks write and sing what they know...and if violence and drugs is what you know, why wouldn't you write about it?

danagain

October 29, 2009 - 8:24 pm EDT

Sadly not post racial rahrah. I work with educated white and black people frequently in my job and see them interact in a post racial manner. Just went to SC last week and worked with one of my favorite clients, two black ladies who started a business on their own 15 years ago and worked their buns off to make it thrive. I respect their tenacity in business and we have become good friends over the years.

In this regard I see us as post racial, but racism is good business for those who exploit it, ask Jesse and Al.

rahrah

October 29, 2009 - 8:24 pm EDT

Can I ask Rush?

danagain

October 29, 2009 - 9:44 pm EDT

Up to you my friend.

dcolin

October 29, 2009 - 10:45 pm EDT

Dan,

What is yoir prescription for change and improvement.

What should be done and how.

J.M.W.

October 29, 2009 - 11:40 am EDT

If white voodoo, blaring, windshield rattling gangsta rap is a form of escapism from being black, being black must truly be hell. A whole lot of white people realize this and enacted change. Take, for instance, all the whites that put Obama in office. And though they'll all be made to be fools, at least they're trying. Til the sweat drips from their b***s...skeet, skeet, skeet.

gsostudent

October 29, 2009 - 12:00 pm EDT

JMW, I hope someone skeet skeets on your racist face and makes you think twice before being such a racist toolbag.

Rollo

October 29, 2009 - 1:27 pm EDT

Greensboro student, I'm not sure why having someone sexually assault JMW would help to make him be a better white guiltist.

That said, rap is not the only music that advocates violence and spews foul language. I'm pretty sure that bands like Sepultura have a mostly white audience, and they aren't saying anything worse than Lil' Jon.

It's not a black or white thing. It's a class or no class thing.

DaveW

October 29, 2009 - 9:31 pm EDT

How many times do I have to tell you all? YOU CAN'T SPELL CRAP WITHOUT RAP!

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