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More students are taking advanced courses

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Saturday, August 29, 2009

(Updated 7:18 am)

By J. Brian Ewing
Staff Writer

GREENSBORO — Guilford County Schools had an increase in the number of students taking Advanced Placement courses last year as well as in the number doing well on those national exams, according to data released this week .

The data showed that:

The number of students who took the courses last year increased by about 7.1 percent for a total of 4,906 students.
Those students took 9,470 exams.
47.3 percent scored a three or higher on the test. The highest score a student can earn is a five . Many colleges give course credit to high school students who score a three or better.
The average score was a 2.53, an increase over the 2.47 average in 2008.
Participation among nearly every minority group increased compared with the previous year. However the gap between the number of white and black students remains wide, with 3,237 white students taking AP courses compared with 893 black students.

Barbara Zwadyk, the school system’s curriculum chief, attributes the increases to a continued push for more students to take the classes from school system administration, teachers and counselors.

But this time next year the reporting might look a lot different.

Beginning this year, the school system is no longer requiring students in AP classes to take the national exams.

Facing a state budget shortfall, the school board voted this summer to only pay for a quarter of the cost of the exams, saving the system an estimated $440,000.

Because it isn’t paying for the tests, the board felt it would be unfair to require students take them.

Parents will be on the line for $21.50 for each test their child opts to take this year. A consortium of local businesses that help fund public school programs will pay the remainder of the $86 cost.

Zwadyk doesn’t think the number of AP students taking the exams will plummet because of the policy change. But even if fewer students take the exam, it doesn’t mean the class was wasted, she said.

“Will there be some children who decide not to take that test? Very probably,” Zwadyk said. “But it’s still about going in that class and learning.”

At Page High School, sophomore Kaleigh Pittman is taking her first round of AP courses. She wants to do well “so then I go into college ahead of everyone else,” she said.

Tim Via , her AP European history teacher, said he was disappointed to hear the school system would no longer require students take the exam, though he understands why the decision was made.

Via says some students, especially the younger ones, might not do well on the tests, but he will encourage all of them to take the exam.

“I really, really believe they’re shortchanging themselves if they choose not to take the exam,” he said.

“The experience would be incomplete without taking the exam.”

Despite the change, Zwadyk said, the system still wants to see more students taking the classes and doing well on the exams.

But she said the focus isn’t on test scores; it’s on exposing students to a course with college-level rigor.

“Whether a child decides to go to college or not, he’s still being exposed to that level of thinking and problem-solving and debate,” she said.

AP exams begin in May.

Contact J. Brian Ewing at 373-7351 or brian.ewing@news-record.com

Accompanying Photos

Jerry Wolford (News & Record)

Photo Caption: Tim Via teaches an Advanced Placement class on European history at Page High School on Friday. Student Kaleigh Pittman, 15, is at left.

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gboro84

August 29, 2009 - 11:02 am EDT

This is nice, but, I personally know a young man who attends Eastern Guilford High. He made a D in algebra 1 and they promoted him to geometry. He never did homework and failed every test, then guessed on the final exam, and somehow, he received a D in his class, and now, he has been promoted to algebra 2 and he doesn't even know pre-algebra. Some system. Of course, he can't retake a course because he passed, with a D.

dcolin

August 29, 2009 - 1:55 pm EDT

Of course.

Algebra one is the only course requiring a passing grade on the final exam.
It's a joke. I had a principal say to me if they can get through Algebra I they usually
don't have any problems. They wouldn't, the teacher adjusts the grades.

I have taught high school graduates ( Guilford ) that cannot do single digit arithmetic
without a calculator.
"Many college accept AP course results."
Depends on how badly they need students and what your major is.
You would be real pressed to find a school of engineering or science or math that would
accept a 3 in AP calculus, physics, chemistry

ohisthatright

August 29, 2009 - 10:04 pm EDT

The standards seem to get lower and lower every year. Now students will be taking AP classes without being required to take the exam, which means more students will take the classes and have inflated GPA's with no substance.

The math issue is huge. I also have taught Guilford County graduates who cannot multiply single digit numbers together without a calculator and students who have completed algebra II and can't do the simplest algebra I problem. The problem is not universal, but it is widespread.

Paul Daniels

September 3, 2009 - 10:53 am EDT

I don't believe that whether one has to take the AP college board exam matters when it comes to studying hard in AP classes. Many students, I am told by AP teachers, have no interest in taking the exam, but are required to show up for it, nonetheless. Teachers tell me these students put their names on their exam and then put their heads down on the desk. The bottom line is there is no penalty for not doing well on the AP exam so a significant number of students did not put forth their best effort (or in some cases, any effort). GCS paid for these exams even though students were not taking them. This did not seem like a good use of taxpayer money to me, so I suggested that we make the AP exam optional so that those who wanted to take it could and those who were not interested in it would not waste their time of taxpayer money. Fortunately, I think, Mo and the board agreed. Now, students who take the exam will be those who want to take it, and whose parents have paid 1/4 of the cost of the exam (roughly $22.00). I dare say that if my parents paid for me to take an exam, they would make it very clear to me that I study hard and do my best. I believe the fact that parents/students now pay for part of the exam will change incentives.

We also need to understand that typically there have been, and are now required, teacher-made AP exams that students must pass to get credit for the AP class. These are separate and apart from the college board AP exams that GCS pay for. Nancy Routh and I, as well as Dr. Folger, have made clear that we expect very rigorous exams for students in our AP classes. We simply will not allow students to, as I put it "slide into a class" and get the big GPA bump. We will be monitoring this to ensure that these teacher made exams are appropriately comprehensive and rigorous.

Finally, I would like to see GCS require students to at least get a recommendation from a teacher before being allowed to enroll in an AP exam. Another problem I have heard tell of is that because AP is open to anyone, we sometimes end up with students who don't have the background to keep up in a class that is to be geared towards high achievers, which causes a couple of problems, not least of which is that it tends to make the class less rigorous because the teacher has to do remedial work with those not prepared.

Paul Daniels

Panacea

August 29, 2009 - 11:40 am EDT

I hope this thing with the national exam is a short term issue. Because I fear the quality of AP education in Guilford County will be diluted if the students don't take the test.

DaveW

August 29, 2009 - 11:57 am EDT

As a parent I will pay for my child to take the AP exams. I am afraid that many others will not.Some students in this years senior class will not get college credit when they have learned enough material to pass the AP exam.This is due to the fact that their parents will not help them by paying for the exam.Personally I do not understand a parent's mindset that will not help their children with this. The expense is minor compared to having a potential college graduate in their family.

Panacea

August 29, 2009 - 6:24 pm EDT

Not to mention when you compare the cost of taking the course in college. Guilford Tech just increased their tuition to $52/credit hour, so $156 to take freshman college English when you could get credit for the course in high school by paying just over one hundred dollars. Why would you pay more when you can pay less?

angie123

August 29, 2009 - 5:34 pm EDT

Free and Reduced lunch students do not have to pay for their exams at all. (Not even the 25% required for other students.

JackK

August 31, 2009 - 12:44 pm EDT

The passing percentages are a bit misleading, for there is no breakdown for individual schools. I know at least one high school where the passing percentage was 17.7%; pulled up, no doubt, by the fact that the largest number of students taking exams are at NW, Grimsley and Early College. Of course the College Board, a closely held company who doesn't have to report its profits, thinks simply taking AP courses and tests are good for students, for the whole AP program is probably a major cash cow for them--remember, teachers have to take workshops, materials must be bought and tests taken, all of which goes into the CB's coffers.

If simply taking the courses were enough, then one would suppose a reasonable curve of grades, that is the same number of A's, B's, C's, etc as in a regular course. If the students have to take an older AP exam as their "teacher made" test this year, I expect you will see lots of F's and D's . . . until the administration steps in to "fix" that. I'm afraid that the Newsweek stats, which Mr. Grier just loved for the padding effect on his resume, pushes the number of students taking the courses, not their acadmic or social readiness for them. Can anyone possibly think that 30 or 40 or 50 ninth graders in any school are ready for a true college-level course? And yet, that's what we see with AP World History each year.

The other problem that statistics don't address is staffing. If the average class size for 12th Grade English is 29, say, and a push is on to make a class of AP 12--with as few as 10 students--that means 19 students have to be put in other classes, pushing up the average to 33 or 34, depending on the total number of English 12 sections in the school. No staffing relief is given, so the other English 12 teachers just have to suck it up. Or, to allow students to take advanced language courses, a section of Spanish might have Spanish 4, Spanish 5 and AP Spanish all in together--none of them can possible get exactly what they're supposed to.

These "improved" numbers still show GCS is more interested in quantity without a concomitant push for quality. And giving more heavily weighted grades for the GPA simply increases the number of students taking courses that they shouldn't be in.