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Police don't want to pull the trigger

Sunday, June 7, 2009
(Updated 7:25 am)

GREENSBORO — At 5:49 a.m. on April 19, 2008, Greensboro police officer Christopher Schultheis set about securing a crime scene unlike any in his 10 years on the job.

The 22-year-old victim lay on the street, bleeding from 10 bullet wounds. His girlfriend, hysterical, ran across the lawn toward his body.

Porch lights from nearby homes flicked on. Neighbors were roused by the predawn gunfire.

This wasn’t Schultheis’ first homicide, but the difference in this investigation didn’t sink in until other officers arrived and his adrenaline began to subside.

An SBI detective took Schultheis’ gun and sealed it in a clear plastic evidence bag.

In this homicide, Officer Schultheis was the one under investigation.

* * *

The victim, James Paschal Jr., was one of six people killed by local law enforcement officers in 2008, double the number in the previous six years combined.

In each instance, District Attorney Doug Henderson determined the officers acted appropriately to save their lives and the lives of others. Henderson made his decisions after reviewing investigative files from the State Bureau of Investigation, the agency that investigates all officer-involved shootings in Guilford County.

Five of the six victims were killed while attacking police officers. Paschal, the only unarmed suspect, didn’t have a weapon but acted as though he had a gun, Henderson said.

“Thank goodness, they’ve been pretty easy calls to make so far,” he said of the cases he’s had to review.

Henderson and police officials say there may be no reason behind the high number of deaths at the hands of law enforcement officers.

Henderson considers last year to be an anomaly. “I certainly don’t think anyone is quicker to pull the trigger.”

But police say the number of shootings is evidence that they are subjected to more hostility from suspects and that people they arrest are more likely to attack an officer than in the past.

Data on assaults on law enforcement officers do not clearly depict this increase. Police officials say that’s because even though officers are required to report when they use force, they are not compelled to report every time they are assaulted.

Use of force by Greensboro police officers has increased dramatically since 2000. According to department data, there were 168 cases in 2002 and 308 in 2008. The most common use of force is spraying Mace, followed by “physical force” such as holding, punching and kicking.

The increase in the use of force is the result of changing police philosophy and an increase in hostility toward officers, said Dwight Crotts, assistant chief of the investigative bureau.

The shift in philosophy is one that allows police to use pepper spray or a Taser to subdue an overtly uncooperative suspect rather than fight with the suspect and risk injury to the officer or the suspect, Crotts said.

* * * 

“If he would have taken off running, I probably wouldn’t have even chased him because I would have been so glad I didn’t have to shoot him,” Schultheis said.

The night of April 19, 2008, had already been a weird one. His daughter, a toddler who had never acted up when a parent left for work, threw her first tantrum, clutching Schultheis’ legs and screaming for him not to go. Ten minutes down the road from his house, he realized his holster was empty. For the first time in 10 years as a police officer, Schultheis had forgotten his gun and had to go back for it.

Schultheis wasn’t scheduled to work that day; he had agreed to pick up an extra overnight shift to help out. He’d just finished breakfast and was ready to coast through the home stretch of his shift. About an hour before he was to go off duty, he picked up a final call.

At 5:43 a.m., he was dispatched to check on a domestic disturbance, a common call for patrol officers. The caller didn’t give any information — just an address, 1818 Eastwood Ave.

When Schultheis arrived, a car was stopped in the middle of the road, its engine running and parking lights on.

“For days, I didn’t know if this guy was even the call I was called out on,” Schultheis said.

The car sped off, leading Schultheis on a short chase, one lap around the block.

Back in front of the house on Eastwood Avenue, Schultheis said he saw Paschal get out of the car.

He started walking toward Schultheis, then gestured as though pulling a gun out of the waistband of his jeans.

Schultheis ordered Paschal to stop.

Paschal kept coming.

Schultheis retreated, putting his patrol car between the two of them.

The officer said Paschal kept repeating, just audibly: “You’re going to have to kill me.”

“I believed he did (have a gun), and I know he wanted me to believe he did,” Schultheis said.

When he had retreated almost a complete circle around his patrol car and saw nowhere else to go for cover, Schultheis fired, striking Paschal 10 times before he fell.

“The only light was from my blue lights,” Schultheis said. “I could not tell if my shots were hitting him or not.”

* * *

State law says when an officer can use deadly force. The officer must believe that he or another person is in imminent danger of deadly force or that a suspect is escaping arrest or custody and is using deadly force in doing so.

Police get a great deal of training in deadly force as rookies and throughout their careers.

Greensboro police recruits get almost double the number of hours of firearms training required by the state; more than two weeks of the 27-week academy is devoted to it. That training also teaches the law and department rules and goes over situations in which force is and isn’t authorized.

Veteran officers receive 18 hours of firearms training each year.

The department has a training simulator that puts officers through a variety of scenarios. Its scripts are based on real situations that police across the country have encountered, and the simulator’s operator can control the actions of the characters.

“I don’t know if there’s a perfect solution,” said Capt. Richard Whisenant, commanding officer of the department’s training division.

But there is a limit to what training can accomplish, Whisenant said, referring to the department’s most recent shooting, a Feb. 9 gunfight involving seven officers and two fleeing bank robbery suspects.

One of the suspects, Demarchrisy Majors, was killed in the shootout. The other suspect, Christopher O’Neal Patterson, was seriously injured.

“How would you have prevented the Wachovia Bank shootout?” Whisenant asked.

* * * 

Schultheis returned to regular duty Aug. 22, four months after the shooting. He did administrative work for other officers while the SBI conducted a criminal investigation into his use of force.

The five Greensboro officers involved in fatal shootings in 2008 were pulled off their normal assignments for more than four months each while the SBI investigated.

In contrast, the three High Point officers involved in fatal shootings were back on the job after about two weeks each. A Guilford County deputy involved in a deadly shooting returned to work about a month later after an internal investigation and a psychological screening.

Greensboro police officials stand behind the department’s policy of waiting for officers to be cleared before returning them to regular duty, but that comes with a cost.

“The toll is significant in a couple of ways,” Crotts said. “First, in the pure lack of manpower.”

Officers involved in fatal shootings tend to come from small, specialized teams where their absences are felt acutely. Two officers involved in fatal shootings last year, William Symmes and Eddie Summers, are members of the department’s eight-man K-9 team.

February’s Wachovia Bank incident involved two K-9 officers, an officer from the tactical narcotics team and one of only four crash reconstructionists in the department’s special operations division.

Officers say they think the months of administrative duty amount to punishment for doing the right thing: stepping up and dealing with a difficult, dangerous situation.

And besides being boring, administrative duty can interfere with a family’s schedule and affect child care or a spouse’s work schedule, Crotts said.

Officers also lose the opportunity to earn extra money working off-duty security jobs, which can be a major hit to a family’s income.

But Greensboro’s policy is designed to assure the families of shooting victims — and other police officers — that officers are investigated without bias.

“It could look improper to someone if we put our officer back to work,” Crotts said.

And there is an emotional toll.

Jim Hightower retired from the police department in 1995 and now works as a private investigator for a security company. He still remembers the first time he thought his life was in danger and how he reacted.

It was almost 30 years ago, in 1980. Returning from his lunch break, he overheard a call on the radio — an armed man holding hostages. He responded.

The hostage-taker came out of the building and leveled a .38 at High-tower’s face.

“We drew our weapons and pointed at the same time,” Hightower said. “I fired it one time, and he went down.”

The shot went through the man’s body, paralyzing him, but he survived.

“That was a strange thing,” Hightower said. “I wondered if I did the right thing.”

Like other officers in that situation, Hightower was left wondering, “Why is he trying to kill me? You’re the good guy, you know?

“You know in your own mind that what you did was what you had to do,” he said.

 “The stress that comes with it is after everything is settled down. Just because you and your officers know it was a good shooting, some other person has to decide. ... The focus is on you. I’m the bad guy, potentially.”

* * *

 A year later, Schultheis is still reminded of Paschal.

Now a sergeant, the officer recently was dispatched to a call on the same street and parked near the spot where he killed Paschal. In another incident, he responded to a call placed by an unrelated person with the same name.

When he is reminded, he feels a tinge of anger at the young man for what he did to his family and to Schultheis.

“No matter what kind of person he was, he had people who care about him,” Schultheis said.

Mostly, Schultheis tries to forget the shooting ever happened, a perspective he said he learned from other officers who have experienced similar situations.

“If you start thinking about it, all you do is think about it,” Schultheis said.

“That would inhibit how you do your job, if you think about it all the time. If you thought about it all the time, it would wreck you.”

 

Accompanying Photos

Joseph Rodriguez (News & Record)

Photo Caption: Officers train at the Greensboro Police Club.

2008 police shootings

Jan. 23
Location:  Interstate 40 eastbound exit to I-85
Officer: Greensboro Officer William Symmes
Suspect: Emile Baptist Williams
Circumstances: At 7:30 p.m. Jan. 23, Williams , 39, of Raleigh took two diamond rings worth $36,200 from a Four Seasons Town Centre jewelry store, police said.
Symmes, who was working off-duty at the mall, chased Williams down the interstate in his unmarked Chevrolet Tahoe patrol vehicle in a pursuit that reached 100 mph.
After a crash and a fight, Williams tried to drive away in Symmes’ SUV, dragging the officer. Symmes shot Williams in the head and temple, killing him.
Symmes, 31, joined the department in March 2002 and has been assigned to the police K-9 Unit since May 2007.
Drugs/alcohol: No evidence of alcohol or drugs was found in an autopsy.
Crime: Robbery

March 26
Location: 312 Greer Ave., High Point
Officer: High Point Officer Josh Clowdis
Suspect: Lori Ann Strickland Hopper
Circumstances: A neighbor on Greer Avenue called 911 shortly before 5 p.m. to report a couple fighting outside the house.
According to the police report, the officer entered the home and found Hopper, 39, wielding an open box cutter and her husband bleeding. Police said that when Hopper lunged at her husband, the officer fired his weapon, killing Hopper.
Drugs/alcohol: A medical examiner’s toxicology report found that Hopper had the equivalent of a 0.17 blood alcohol content when she died, more than double the level at which the law considers a person impaired.

April 19
Location: 1818 Eastwood Ave., Greensboro
Officer: Greensboro Officer Christopher Schultheis
Suspect: James Paschal Jr.
Circumstances: Paschal was not armed, but Schultheis said he thought Paschal was taking a gun out of the waistband of his pants.
Drugs/alcohol: A medical examiner’s toxicology report found that Paschal had the equivalent of a 0.03 blood alcohol content when he died.

Sept. 8
Location: 612 Clover Drive, High Point
Officers: High Point Officers K.H. Kish and C.C. Wolf
Suspect: Jeremy Antonio Mills
Circumstances: Police said Mills, 21, was one of three men who robbed a home at 621 Clover Drive at gunpoint. Mills didn’t respond to commands and threatened officers with a handgun, police said. The officers shot and killed Mills.
Drugs/alcohol: Mills’ blood alcohol content was 0.04, according to a medical examiner’s toxicology report. That’s half the legal limit.

Sept. 14
Location: 1315 W. Meadowview Road, Greensboro
Officers: Greensboro Officers B.M. Altizer, T.D. Moore and Eddie Summers
Suspect: Hakeem A. Chaneyfield
Circumstances: Chaneyfield was wanted by New York police in connection with his girlfriend’s death. Chaneyfield’s aunt, a Greensboro resident, called police about 5 p.m. Sept. 14 and said her nephew was in her apartment at 1315 W. Meadowview Road and had killed his girlfriend.
Chaneyfield’s girlfriend, Jasmine Liggins, 31, of Brooklyn, N.Y., was found dead in her apartment at 10:30 a.m. Sept. 13 with a gunshot wound to her head, according to the New York Police Department.
About 8 p.m., police approached Chaneyfield as he walked across the parking lot to a car. Chaneyfield fired on the officers, and the officers shot back. Chaneyfield was pronounced dead en route to Moses Cone Hospital.
Drugs/alcohol: No drugs or alcohol were detected in a blood sample taken after Chaneyfield’s death.

Sept. 29
Location: 307 E. Steeple Chase Road, Pleasant Garden
Officer: Guilford County Deputy Vic Maynard
Suspect: Dylan William Hartsfeld
Circumstances: Hartsfeld, 25, was shot outside his home at 307 E. Steeple Chase Road.  Investigators said Hartsfeld had attempted to attack Maynard and others with a bush ax. Maynard shot Hartsfeld when he was 10 feet away, wielding a bush ax and ignoring instructions to stop and put down the ax.
Hartsfeld was a veteran the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Family and friends believe he suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder, but it was never diagnosed.
Maynard had gone to Hartsfeld’s home after Bill Hartsfeld, Dylan Hartsfeld’s father, called 911 because his son had fallen down a flight of stairs. Guilford Metro 911 had flagged the home as a place where emergency workers needed to use caution because dangerous people lived there.
Drugs/alcohol: Dylan Hartsfeld’s blood alcohol content was 0.16, double the level that is considered intoxicated by law.
 

Using deadly force

N.C. General Statute 15A-401 d2:
(2) A law-enforcement officer is justified in using deadly physical force upon another person for a purpose specified in subdivision (1) of this subsection only when it is or appears to be reasonably necessary thereby:
a. To defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of deadly physical force;
b. To effect an arrest or to prevent the escape from custody of a person who he reasonably believes is attempting to escape by means of a deadly weapon, or who by his conduct or any other means indicates that he presents an imminent threat of death or serious physical injury to others unless apprehended without delay; or
c. To prevent the escape of a person from custody imposed upon him as a result of conviction for a felony.
Nothing in this subdivision constitutes justification for willful, malicious or criminally negligent conduct by any person which injures or endangers any person or property, nor shall it be construed to excuse or justify the use of unreasonable or excessive force.
 

Comments

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Get Real

June 7, 2009 - 3:45 am EDT

Use of force by Greensboro police officers has increased dramatically since 2000. According to department data, there were 168 cases in 2002 and 308 in 2008. The most common use of force is spraying Mace, followed by “physical force” such as holding, punching and kicking.

Why is nothing being done about this? You're not safe, even from the cops.

Paul J

June 7, 2009 - 6:19 am EDT

10 shots from a 9mm. Sounds like the SBI is the fox guarding the hen house. One shot in the knee would have ended it.

Get A Clue

June 7, 2009 - 8:36 am EDT

Use of force has increased dramatically? Not if you understand math. It has only increased if you look at the number of shootings now v. prior years. If you also add the amount of crime--especially drug-related--and the types of incidents which demand split-second response from our officers then you see this number in a more realistic light. There are increased crime elements in the Triad that simply weren't as predominant in years past.
Start by being a law-abiding citizen. Then carry yourself in a way that demonstrates both self-respect and respect for authority. In the incredibly rare instance you find yourself in the presence of police, follow their instructions. It's not that difficult.
I was pulled over for a traffic stop once and as I reached for my glove box the officer unsnapped his holster. He reminded me politely it would not be a good idea for me to be fishing about the glove box unless and until he gave me instructions to do so. I understood how it must look from his point of view, since I had already broken the law by speeding.
I think this is an excellent article. If you have an attitude about the police, take a good look at your own poor choices first.

unbiased

June 7, 2009 - 9:49 am EDT

Get Real, what needs to be done is for people to respect law enforcement and follow their commands or instructions. Pepper spray and physical force have been common responses for decades when suspects resist officers. Greensboro, like many other cities, is seeing an increase in population, response area, and therefore crime. An increase in crime will naturally lead to an increase in combative suspects, and therefore uses of force by police. You and the rest of the community will be perfectly safe from the police if you follow the law and do what you're told without resisting an officer.

Paul J, that is the most overused ignorant response from citizens. Let's pretend that the officer went against everything police are trained to do and tried a pinpoint knee shot in the dark when he could barely see the guy, let alone exactly where his knee was. The officer would try this pinpoint shot while his body is suffering an adrenaline rush from the escalated situation and fear that makes his hands shake. He somehow pulls off a shot that a majority of officers would not be able to accomplish even in the calm atmosphere of the shooting range. The officer still believes that the guy has a gun, so if he does he's still going to pull it out and start firing away at the officer and probably hit him somewhere. An injured knee doesn't make people automatically give up like in some movies. He could easily have returned fire and injured or killed the officer. Officers are trained, under the structure of the law, to shoot at a deadly threat until the threat is ended. That threat could last two seconds or 30, and it only takes two or three seconds to fire an entire twelve round magazine. The officer couldn't be sure in the dark that his rounds struck the suspect until he fell. Perhaps you think officers should be able to have x-ray vision, see the future, and shoot like a military sniper or an action movie star that has every round scripted to hit directly on target. Until that happens, people who pretend to have a gun and approach police with threatening words will have to get shot. I can only hope your ignorant thoughts are in the extreme minority.

Paul J

June 7, 2009 - 11:39 am EDT

Hit him 10 times in the dark. Start thinking and quit believing everything you are told.
Should a cop have the right to shoot someone because he thinks he had a gun?
As stated before when he was looking through his glove box should the cop shoot him. I know there are extenuating circumstances sometime but the number of people being shot is not reasonable. Look at the trooper in Reidsville that shot his girlfriends husband and was cleared by the SBI (Same Boys Investigating)
These shootings should go before a citizens review board made up like a jury and not hand picked people.

Don Stowe

June 7, 2009 - 1:38 pm EDT

I would hate to have my future as an officer who was compelled to kill someone placed in the hands of ignorant people who had an anti-law-enforcement mindset from the beginning. The investigations of SBI, District Attorney, Superior Court, and maybe State Supreme Court, are more than adequate to oversee police deaths. No other profession has such an abundence of oversight. A "citizens board" would be an attempt by power hungry people to run our society outside the established system.

No one, no one, who has not faced the possibility of having to shoot another because of the stupid actions by that person, has the right to decide what a law-enforcement officer should do. I have faced such a decision on many occasions and was lucky enough to handle the situation without fatal consequesences. I have been shot at, swung at by knives, dodged sticks, and been hit by fists. In no instance did I provoke the attack. Those who would want to disarm police, handicap their performance by stupid rules, are living in a dream world where everyone is like Ghandi. Police are our only defense against anarchy. Let us try to support them rather than constantly criticize and stand in the way.

Time have changed. I entered law-enforcement 50 years ago. Then, and for many years, assault on an officer was rare. In recent years such events have become much more numerous until today it is epidemic. Police today are smarter, better educated and better trained than ever. It is hard to understand the thinking of so many people that police offecers are nothing but a bunch of Rambos.

unbiased

June 7, 2009 - 1:47 pm EDT

Yes, he was hit ten times because the officer did what he was trained and shot toward the center mass. And yes, state law (all states actually) say an officer can shoot someone if they reasonably believe they are being threatened with a gun, even if you don't find out until later that there wasn't a gun. You should look up deadly force laws and training, because I'm starting to think you just want me to expalin it for you. Do your own research and you will answer your own questions.

Get Real, you just want to believe that officers are bad...whatever. I won't try to change your mind.

Get Real

June 7, 2009 - 1:18 pm EDT

Respect is a two-way street.

Population growth from 2002 to 2008 is not significant enough for your argument to work. I think it's just a population growth in the arrogant, power-hungry, aggressive, police officers fresh out of iraq with something to prove.

Get A Clue

June 7, 2009 - 3:51 pm EDT

"Respect is a two-way street."
That's the BS phrase uttered by every lazy smartass punk looking for a fight.
The thug wannabe with his pants below his buttcrack and his hand grasping his boyhood who sits in class not having completed his homework for the 25th time. "Teacher showed me disrespect." Yeah, by having the audacity to ask why he failed to complete his assignment.
The pimply-faced whigger who thinks he's king of the mall food court dropping f-bombs loud enough for paying patrons to have to listen to...who in reality won't leave because he's waiting for his mommy to come pick him up in the minivan.
And the adult jerk like you who blew his chance at a decent career by being one of the morons I've just described, who's now an adult living with his mom and who unashamedly refers to himself as a gamer and a playa and whose resume is the bag of nametag badges from the last 10 minimum wage jobs he's held just long enough to cover a car payment or two and the occasional bag of weed.
Respect is earned, little man. Crack open a few books, put on a suit and show up to work on time. Day after day. Give your parents a reason to be proud for a change and the officer who protects your life a reason to defend yours instead of wonder if that's a gun you're grabbing for where your manhood should be.
End of lecture.

The Lurker

June 7, 2009 - 8:20 pm EDT

I love how everybody thinks they're an expert.

Here's an idea. Go on a ride-along with a police officer at night on either the east side or south side of greensboro. See what they really deal with. Talk to one for a few hours and see what they have to run back and forth to all night.

Another suggestion is this. Run 100 yards and then make 12 shots at 15 yards from your target. See how accurate you are.

The Greensboro Police Department is full of people trying to make this a better place to live. Unfortunately there is an element out there that's hindering that effort. People love Firemen. They love Doctors, Nurses and Paramedics. Become a police officer and see how many of your friends disappear.

Police Officer is not a job that turns off when you take off the uniform and go home.

Get Real

June 7, 2009 - 11:59 pm EDT

Get a Clue, You know me SO WELL.

Prisonofficer

June 7, 2009 - 12:47 pm EDT

I have met some officers that was just plain nice and some that were just butt holes. The nice ones will do there job and leave it at that, the others with try to escalate a simple traffic stop to a major situation. Those are the tigger happy officers that need to come see me at my work place and get a taste of their own medicine. I know the routine and know when and how to provoke the kind of response I want from a person. I have had an GPD officer pull me over for a simple traffic stop and he try to provoke agression from me. Why go that route? I agree with having a citizen's reveiw board and looking into some of these officers actions. Some of the things these officers do is just plain ridiculous.

Get A Clue

June 7, 2009 - 4:00 pm EDT

Wow, was that "tigger happy" officer on the Disney security force?
You brag about provoking people in the same breath as complaining about people who rub you the wrong way. A corrections officer should be smart enough to follow simple traffic laws so as not to get pulled over in the first place.
Here's a free piece of advice, tough guy. Proofread. There are several spelling and grammatical errors in your little hissy fit--signs of ignorance and laziness. Although based on your little temper tantrum you seem to think those are traits to brag about instead of faults to overcome.

Prisonofficer

June 8, 2009 - 12:59 am EDT

Get a Clue, you are really clueless. I never said I received a speeding ticket. It was a check point, second I never let someone like a punk officer trying to make a name for himself get me angry. In fact he walked away upset with me for not falling for his top notch training. Are you rubbed the wrong way by my post? Third, I have never used those tactics with inmates. It’s called being a professional. As for the ex-police officers that I have dealt with in prison, the first thing they ask for is protective custody.
You are really clueless if you think every officer is GI Joe All-American. My point is that there are a few bad seeds in the police force just like in any other profession. Stop being Sensitive,Get A Clue and stop drinking the Cool-aid. Heaven forbid if someone say something bad about a police officer. It upsets me when a C/O does something stupid and bring bad press to my profession. It reflects on all of us. But I'm smart enought to know that we have those bad seeds.
I have done ride alongs with officers before in Greensboro and on the east coast, they were real professional.

jeepdriver

June 7, 2009 - 10:47 pm EDT

My step-son is a LEO. K-9 and SWAT Down Eastern NC. Story told today (happened 3 days ago). As he was just about to end his shift, he noticed the car in front of him weaving back and forth. After about 1/4 mile he decided to do a routine stop. The driver and passenger were Latinos with limited English. As his dog went int fits, he called for back up and low and behold..12# pot, lots of cash, and illegal weapons. Everyday stories.
Back in the 70's i put hundreds of hours in the "Ride Along Program" and is truly an eye opener.
Anyone who is a LEO basher, I only ask one thing of you IF YOU HAVE THE BALLS of a man and is an extremist left wing zealot do a Ride Along with a LEO (doubt if you have the BALLS) and see first hand what our LEO's do to keep you MORONS safe in NOBAMA land.
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -Barry Goldwater 1968

Paul J

June 7, 2009 - 10:58 pm EDT

Did he shoot them because they had guns? Why not?
No one is saying police don't have a tough job but they are no more heroes than our military or firemen, EMT etc. Just hold them to a much higher standard than normal people. It is a volunteer job.

Get Real

June 8, 2009 - 12:12 am EDT

What does that quote have to do with this discussion?

Maybe, it's a Jeep thing. I wouldn't understand.

Paul J

June 8, 2009 - 6:59 am EDT

You don't understand the above quote but you are allowed to vote. Only in America.

Get Real

June 9, 2009 - 2:51 am EDT

No. I understand it. I just don't see the point of jeepdriver trying to turn a discussion about cops and guns to a discussion about how Obama is evil and Socialism is the WORST thing ever. What does that have to do with this article? That's all I was getting at.

Why are you attacking me? I agree with everything you said.

jeepdriver

June 8, 2009 - 10:12 am EDT

PPaul,
No he Did Not shoot. The weapons were concealed and only found when back up responded and a search ensued.
When an officer has to use his weapon in a situation, it is a last resort measure and only when you feel that your life is in danger then and only then can you use deadly force. BTW we who carry can only use our weapon when it is a last resort situation.
Volunteer becoming A LEO, EMT, Fire? Military is Volunteer. I hold ALL who "Serve to Protect" in high esteem. I have had to rely on EMT due to a major heart attack and if NOT for them, I may not be here today.
Take the time to thank each one when you meet them on the street. You would be surprised how much they appreciate it.
The Barry quote, just want to remind all how scary it has become under the current administration.

Get Real

June 8, 2009 - 11:41 am EDT

Not as scary as the Patriot Act or being stripped of our Constitutional rights.

jeepdriver

June 8, 2009 - 6:54 pm EDT

After 9/11 Americans were scared and did not KNOW how much FREEDOM they were giving up under the
Patriot Act. Senseless and clueless citizens. If the Health Care bill passes, FBI, HSA, will have complete access to ALL your medical files. Watch out 2nd Ammendment

Get Real

June 9, 2009 - 3:03 am EDT

Well, in that case I can just use the same tired argument from your side saying, "If you're not doing anything illegal then what do you have to worry about?"

It is absolutely ridiculous that a country as "great" as ours can't take care of it's own citizens by having a better health care system. I travel all over the world and every non-american is shocked at the amount of money we have to pay if we get sick. And every argument that says these ideas are socialist needs to understand that your police, fire, EMT, public schools, libraries, ARE socialist ideas. UH-OH! They better start charging a fee.

Maybe next time the cops shoot a family member of yours for holding a cell phone they can send you a bill.

jeepdriver

June 9, 2009 - 9:18 am EDT

My family members? MY family has not one blemish on their record. And the majority of us own handguns are are LEGAL carry. For the record, we use Bluetooth. Seriously, I have been in many places outside the US and know what you are talking about. The last time I was in Canada, I had a chance to compare health plans. If you live in a major city..no problem. But outside metropolis, health care suffers just like our rural areas. I agree, something has to be done.

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