news-record.com

Thanks for saying that, wscruiser. That is an issue several people mentioned when I did the research for this story. I think that is another important thing to consider when looking at this issue.

I don't know which upsets me more-- the N&R article or the posted comments. I'm almost ashamed to live in a city where it's evident that the residents still hold racist attitudes toward minorities. It's obvious that some things will never change.

Unless your occupation requires solving algebraic or geometrical equations, why would the employer test applicants on this type of math and use it as defining criteria during it's hiring process? Basic math skills are a must for any adult and yes, if the applicant regardless of race, is unable to answer those questions then they may not be suited for the position. As a community, we are so ready to rush to judgement and spout racist rhetoric when we hear the words minorities, investigation, equality, that we fail to focus on or identify the root cause of the problem.

The article doesn't say that the Justice Department is attempting to create loopholes or lower the standards to allow unqualified applicants to pass. The basis of their investigation appears to be understanding why the recruiting classes and employment numbers for these departments do not necessarily closely represent the current population for these miniority groups. I would think that their investigation would do more than review standardized test and their pass/fail rate. They should also look at the number of miniority applicants and the communities overall perception of the police and fire departments. If you do not trust the instituitions that say they are here to protect and serve, why would you want to join their ranks?

Everyone is entitled to their opinions as it relates to this matter, affirmative action, etc. However, it saddens me that as I raise my kids to love and respect others regardless of race or gender, strive to excel academically in pursuit of meeting their professional goals, there are parents raising their children to believe in stereotypes that all miniorities want "something for nothing" or "always looking for a handout" and "how to get over". Because in the end, when you post comments that negatively attack other races, you are either overtly or subtly teaching your kids to mimic your behavior. And as long as this type of thought process is replicated amongst our youth, we'll never live in a society that promotes understanding and celebrates diversity.

As a footnote to the author: I do agree that the timing of this article diminishes the accomplishments of those graduates. They should have been allowed to bask in the glory of their success with their families at least for the week/weekend. Timing is everything and this was a poorly timed article.

Walter Williams whom is black and heads the department of economics at George Mason University, said that any time you have a black mayor, fire chief, chief of police, the cities have trouble. Look at Detroit, New York, Washington D.C., all of which are still in trouble. This is just as bad as voting all Democrates in.

Firefighting requires mental and physical stamina beyond any ideological demographic standards. The demise of the newspaper is not due to the lack of interest in printed copy, but rather is because of the reduction in reporting standards, decreased staffing and increased production demands. Get quality reporters and give them time and tools to do a thorough job. As for this story itself, further commentary is at http://muttonchopsbyiris.blogspot.com

Sounds like the city hired the most qualified individuals to me. So what's the problem?.

First, the math test is just a portion of the hiring process. For police anyway, there is no pass/fail and it's just one factor that is taken into account. Second, basic math (and sometimes complicated math) does come into effect when investigating crimes, whether it's working with numbers or part of a bigger problem solving ability. Fraud, larceny, embezzlement, and drug crimes involve some level of math skill or just being able to measure amounts and convert it to street value. Math comes in when you have to write up time sheets and account for your time and activity for the day. Don't let anyone fool you that these skills are not job specific.

If the lower percentage of minorities that apply can't display these basic skills, it is a complete waste of time and money to hire them anyway just to find out in field training that they still aren't qualified. We always hear how police and fire are supposed to be "Greensboro's finest" and held to a higher standard. With that in mind how can you turn around and justify the elimination of basic skills tests from consideration? If the DOJ or anyone else truly wants a police and fire dept to be representative and mirror the community, it will be full of people that couldn't graduate from high school, are criminals, and couldn't investigate their way out of a port-o-potty, let alone solve a robbery or put out a chemical fire safely.

Until minorities want to join public service as much as whites do, disparities will always exist. All these investigations to eliminate basic standards is simply prioritizing racial representation over public safety (and fairness). Let's see where it gets us in another ten years.

"The department could not show any correlation between the math skills test and officer job performance, said Capt. Marie Chiarizia of Virginia Beach.

In other words, you don’t need to be a math ace to be a good police officer.

Virginia Beach ended up allowing 124 previously disqualified applicants to reapply. Most opted, instead, to take their cut of a $160,000 compensation fund."

This part of the story is what is most revealing to me.

Take another look at the name of the Va. Beach Police Captain and while you're at it do some research on the crime statistics of Va. Beach and Hampton areas.

Amanda, the following is what caused me to view your article with a jaundiced eye: "In the fire department’s past eight recruit classes, 37 percent of graduates were minorities, according to city statistics. In the police department, 73.5 percent of those in the past five classes were white."

Why, Amanda, was it worded that way? Was it written to give readers an opportunity to use their math skills or was it meant to stir the pot by assuming either inattention or lack of education/intelligence in your readers?

Those two sentences could just as easily have been more compatible and coherent in their comparison, e.g., "In the fire department's past eight recruit classes, 37 percent of graduates were minorities, according to city statistics. In the police department, 26.5 percent of those in the past five classes were minorities" OR "In the fire department’s past eight recruit classes, 63 percent of graduates were white, according to city statistics. In the police department, 73.5 percent of those in the past five classes were white."

Ah, that sticky wicket -- comparison agreement.

Back in the mid-90's, my wife applied for a position at a local community college (state funded), the recruiter told her on a Friday that she had the position verbally. On Monday, shortly after giving notice to her current employer, she received a call that the community college had to retract the verbal employment offer. The reason was that the position was "targeted" for minorities. In the meantime, my wife's current employer hired a replacement... she was screwed by the color of her skin, despite having nailed all verbal and written tests.

Roughly two years later, I applied for a position in the state of Ohio IT department. I filled out the application with my background and stating that I was a white male, I also nailed all tests at 100%. A few days later I received the official offer letter and called them to find out where to report on Monday. I was told that they had to retract the offer for undisclosed reasons, (now I knew the game!) I asked if the position was "targeted", the response was "I don't know what that means". Then I said I'm 1/6th Cherokee (which I am), and I was told where to report on Monday. I told them where to stick their offer in unflattering terms and went to the private sector.

Where was the AFLCIO during our efforts to overcome discrimination?

Shame on all of them!

Congrats to the N and R for finding a negative on a positive story.Maybe after the Lakers win the NBA title,we can hear why they lack in diversity too...Hahahaha,only in Greensboro.

While the city government of Greensboro has been focused on racial diversity and conducting racially-motivated witchhunts against former city officials, the crime rate has sky-rocketed in a once-pleasant place to shop and visit. One cannot go to Friendly Center, Cone Hospital, Four Season's Mall, a movie theater on High Point Road, or many other GSO venues without the risk of robbery, car-jacking, gang-warfare, or murder. And that is not taking into consideration the nightly home invasions that we read about on a daily basis in the News and Record. Perhaps if the city concentrated more on picking the MOST QUALIFIED CANDIDATES, instead of playing the politically-correct, affirmative action game, then the crime problem in Greensboro may ease a bit.

Truly Pathetic ....Do you people think i care who is saving my life? NO I want the most qualified person. One day white people will wake up and see it is them facing racism

Ms. Lehmert, why did you refuse to print the percentage of minorities who actually applied for the positions? I think you would find that diversity is lacking on THEIR part. They are the ones who do not want to be police and firefighters. I also think you need to look into the percentage of whites that are rejected and I think you will find a basis for discrimination lawsuits. More whites get rejected than blacks when applying for city jobs and I think that is discrimination.

Why is it that the media only reports when minorities are “under-represented” in certain areas of the workforce? Could it be the liberal-spin that they put on every single issue they report?

Let’s put our feelings & compassion aside and look at the facts. Here are some highlights from the annual Federal Equal Opportunity Recruitment Program report for fiscal year (FY) 2008. The report is produced by the Office of Personnel Management in accordance with the requirements of title 5, United States Code, section 7201. If you want to read the report yourself, you’ll find it here: http://www.opm.gov/About_OPM/Reports/FEORP/2008/feorp2008.pdf

The nation’s largest employer is the Federal Government, employing about 1.8 million people. Of those, blacks represented 17.9% of the Federal Workforce. The US Census Bureau says blacks represent 12.3% of the general population, so the Federal Government is “overhiring” blacks by about 45%. I don’t see the Justice Dept investigating them for unfair hiring practices.

The Court Services And Offender Supervision Agency is 82.1% black, strangely, I don’t see any reports about that in the news.

The Government Printing Office is 54.9% black, but I don’t see any reports about that in the news either.

And of all places, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission is 42.8% black. I can’t imagine a better example of hypocrisy. Gee, why doesn’t that make the front page of a news paper somewhere? Why isn’t the Justice Dept investigating them?

Oh, and in case you’re wondering, the Justice Dept is 17.3% black, an overhire of 40%. They should take a peak in the mirror before they point fingers at Greensboro.

Now let’s take a look at State & Local Governments. If you thought the Federal Government employed a lot of people, then you'd better sit down. State & Local Government employs over 5.8 million workers. Check out the facts here: http://www.eeoc.gov/stats/jobpat_eeo4/2005/states/us.html

Blacks represent 18.9% of the S&LG workforce, meaning they’re overhired at a rate of 53%. Why isn’t the main stream media reporting that? Where are the Justice Dept investigations into their hiring practices?

In NC, the trend continues. (http://www.eeoc.gov/stats/jobpat_eeo4/2005/states/StateNC.html) Blacks are employed by S&LG at a rate of almost 26%, and the Census Bureau says NC is 21.6% black. So in NC, blacks are overhired by almost 20%. Gee, I must have missed that headline in the News & Record.

And the racial preferences don't stop there. The federal government imposes a host of socio-economic obligations on the private sector through its contracts, including requirements related to affirmative action. They administer a number of race, gender and ethnicity-based preference programs for contractors including the 8(a) program as well as the SDB (Small Disdadvantaged Business) and WBE (Woman-Owned Business Enterprise) programs. According to the SBA's own official report, less than 0.5% of 8(a) businesses are owned by white males. Where are the newspaper reports on that? Why isn’t MSNBC running a special report on it?

Executive Order 11246 requires contractors with 50 or more employees and contracts of $50,000 or more to implement affirmative action plans to increase the participation of minorities and women in the workplace. So the racial preferences don't end with the government, they're forced upon the private sector when they fulfill government contracts.

Let's face it, once the governments are done overhiring minorities for a workforce of 7.6 million people, there just aren't enough left to fill in the gaps. If you put too many of one race into a certain place, then by definition, someone else will be short a few.

Furthermore, if you look at the hiring rates of applicants to the GFD you’ll see that the Dept has gone above and beyond to recruit and hire more minorities. For recruitment, the Dept has an assigned Recruitment Team comprised of 43 people. Of those, 3/5ths of them are non-white males, and many of their recruitment activities take them to places with high concentrations of racial minorities.

Plus, the GFD’s Fire Training Supervisor (an Assistant Chief Position) used to give reports on the numbers of applicants versus hires in each race and gender category. If I recall correctly, white male applicants outnumbered black males about 20:1 and a black male’s chances of getting hired were about twice that of a white male.

The hard fact is that Firefighting does not attract nearly as many applicants from racial & gender minorities as it does white males. No court order or magic wand will change that.

This article deserves a follow up with more facts Ms. Lehmert. If you won’t do it, then who will?

Why expect anything more from a failing Newspaper. When all else fails create a little negative racial news.
Just look at the number of aggrivated people responding to this article. Seems to me our news media would get the message. I suppose you could hire the street guys holding the cardboard signs. No test, just hire em.

here's how I look at it: first of all, Amanda did not do a bad job on the story. half the time staff writers of newspapers are told what to write and when to write it and if its not what the editor wants, then he has the right to change it to say what they want to convey, so we cnt put all the blame on her. And yes ppl, racism still does exist. Maybe not as open and obvious as in the past but its does. Second of all, no it doesnt matter what color you are when you're rescuing ppl from a fire, I'm just grateful that there are ppl out there willing to put their lives on the line for others, who probably wont appreciate it bc the firefighter is a different race then they are. I also think its important to test ppl in this field extensively bc it's important to have the best when its comes to your life. Studies may show that some blacks score lower on standardized tests than whites, ok, but its all about what you put in. If you want to be the best, you push yourself to be the best. Those questions on standardized tests are things that are taught in school and some children just catch on and learn better than others. Its not always about race. And lastly, to Buzzman, I am very offended that you feel that blacks want something for nothing. African Americans have struggled for years to change policies and unfair and unjust laws not just for themselves but for all minorites. Shoot, there are non-minorities out there benefitting as well. Plus, there are a lot of non-minorites who feel that they deserve "something for nothing" or they deserve more just for being born white. Nope, sorry, it doesnt work that way. Everyone deserves a chance to get out into the world and have a chance to succeed, its just unfortuanate that some ppl dont see it that way.