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Churches vote to remove barrier to gays

Thursday, April 23, 2009
(Updated 7:20 am)

Presbyterians in central North Carolina voted this week in favor of a proposed constitutional amendment that could allow gays to serve as ministers and elders.

Just a few votes at a quarterly gathering of the Salem Presbytery, which has 150 congregations in central North Carolina, made the difference Tuesday in passing the proposed change to the Book of Order, which is part of the denomination’s constitution.

The proposed amendment does not specifically allow for the ordination of gays but rather removes language that would prevent it. A majority of the 173 presbyteries, or local gatherings, of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) is required to approve any change to the constitution.

“A great deal of my ministry has been to people who have been hurt by the church,” said the Rev. Lou East of Epiphany Presbyterian in Greensboro. “I hope that what happened yesterday was a healing word of welcome for those who have had the church door slammed in their face. I believe God’s church is big enough for all of us.”

Four of the five North Carolina Presbyteries have voted for the amendment. But on Wednesday, the amendment appeared to be falling short of the necessary votes to approve the change. The official tally will come in May.

“You’ve got two ends of the spectrum — the very conservative and the very liberal, and the middle is 70 percent, who are caught in a tug of war,” said Sam Marshall, the general presbyter who handles administrative duties. “I hope that what we will do is hold the church together through the tension, that this issue will not be given the power to divide or to split churches.”

The action follows the 218th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), which voted 380-325 in June to send the group’s 173 presbyteries a proposed amendment that would remove language requiring ministers to be in a heterosexual marriage or be celibate.

“I feel so strongly that the Scripture outlines the way that God intends for us to live our lives — and I believe the union between a man and woman is the way God intended,” said the Rev. Jesse Bledsoe, pastor of Buffalo Presbyterian Church who said he voted against the proposed amendment.

“The people who voted 'no’ yesterday, we don’t hate anybody, we don’t want to hurt anybody,” Bledsoe said. “We often get labeled as being homophobic or people who have 'hate speech,’ and that’s simply not the case. We love people, and we want them to know the truth of Scripture.”

The proposal would delete a paragraph in the Book of Order that requires church officers to live in “fidelity within the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman or chastity in singleness.” The paragraph itself was added in 1996, when the church was debating who could serve.

“Our tradition in the Presbyterian church is not to be that restrictive,” said Bob Kollar, an elder at Guilford Park Presbyterian Church in Greensboro, who supported the 1996 amendment because he feared that the controversy would split the church.

“This current amendment reads in beautiful language … that those called … pledge themselves to live in obedience to Jesus Christ, striving to follow wherever he leads,” said Kollar, who supports the new amendment. “We do not as individual Christians and Presbyterians need to pass judgment on others. That’s not our responsibility.”

Some amendment supporters took hope from the number of presbyteries which previously had voted against similar amendments but which changed their votes this time.

“The witness to the world in the church is when those of us who disagree on some things can come together under the lordship of Jesus Christ,” East said. “To me, that’s the witness to the world and the 'see how they love one another’ part.”

 

Contact Nancy McLaughlin at 373-7049 or nancy.mclaughlin@news-record.com

The Front Pew

Is it passing judgment or following Scripture to say that sexual orientation matters for those who are ordained? Join the discussion at Nancy McLaughlin’s Front Pew blog.

Visiting the Holy Land

Nina Ingram, a preacher’s wife and administrative assistant at a local university, is blogging her way through Israel and its historic and biblical sites. Read her entries at The Front Pew.

Comments

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bigwill

April 23, 2009 - 8:29 am EDT

How can a person be a minister or elder of the church and teach their followers about Christ, when they are living in sin themselves. If you are gay and a minister, you can not tell people to live by the way of God's word, when you yourself are not following your own preaching. That would be like your Mom telling you not to do drugs, while she is smoking a joint. Kind of the pot calling the kettle black, dont you think? I guess this goes to show that the world is just getting closer to the end. Its sad that people are so caught up in politics and appearance, that they even change their own religion, just to look good.
Leviticus 18:22 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

bigwill

April 23, 2009 - 8:36 am EDT

Leviticus 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Wow, and they are going to allow someone that applies to this verse become a minister of the church? I bet if they ever have a gay minister, they will never hear of this verse being preached.

foodforthought

April 23, 2009 - 9:06 am EDT

Next up, I predict that those who violate this verse and others who support them will create a version of the bible that meets their needs. The Open Gay Bible.

justsaying

April 23, 2009 - 9:29 am EDT

I see bible versus have been pulled out to make a point. While we're at it, how about Exodus 21:7. You know, the one where the bible approves selling your daughter into slavery? Or perhaps Exodus 35:2. That's the one that forbids you from doing any work on the sabbath or else you shall be killed. I sure hope you haven't ever committed that, or you just might be living in sin. I really hope, though, that you don't like bacon or ham in the morning. You should well know that the consumption of pork is clearly forbidden in Leviticus 11:7-8.

Any reason you have decided all of these other rules, some of which are punishable by death, are irrelevant? It seems a little unfair to choose this one quote as being the word when ignoring the lines just before it...

bigwill

April 23, 2009 - 10:14 am EDT

I never said anything about me being a minister either, so you obviously missed the whole entire point. The point is allowing someone who is still committing a sin, to tell others not to, but I guess your just like all the others that can not see that there is anything wrong with that. Plus, I pray before I eat to forgive my sins. I seriously doubt the gay guy prays before he does his thing.

foodforthought

April 23, 2009 - 4:44 pm EDT

The aim of Leviticus 20 is to show the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. There are many rules in the Old Testament which remain relevant today. Sex with animals is still prohibited and it is written in Leviticus 20. The Ten Commandments have provided most of us a great moral compass. Let's not forget Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for a reason.

jeffjet

April 23, 2009 - 9:55 am EDT

This is the very reason I left the PC USA church. Having been a Sunday school teacher and an Elder I couldn't in good concsience serve the Lord knowing the body of the church was allowing promotion of an active sin state by one or more members of that body. While I know the members of these churches that support these resolutions and rule changes believe they are doing the right thing by allowing homosexuals to serve, they forget that homosexuality is an active sin. God judges sin, we don't. However, it is our responsibility and role as leaders to lead a life above reproach (1 Timothy 3:2). In my own personal situation I have been divorced. I have had to undergo a time of healing, prayer, and asking forgiveness of my sins. I am quite confident that the Lord has restored me to good standing again (it's been 10 years) and I have been through much, but I have committed myself to what Scripture says that a Elder/Deacon "must be the husband of but one wife." (1 Timothy 3:12). I personally take this verse literally and I will not serve again as Elder/Deacon even though I have been offerred to do this. I have had counsel from pastors on both sides of this issue, but my belief is that I will not serve again as Elder/Deacon to preserve the integrity of the church. I haven't asked any church to make accomodations for me because of the sins I committed. I ask God to forgive me of my sins. I seek to repent of my sins and be healed of my sin state. The Lord is faithful and just to forgive me of my sins and cleanse me of all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9). There truly doesn't appear to be anyway that a sinner can ever be justified in their sin state. Can a person that is a homosexual truly expect any different result?

amybods

April 23, 2009 - 11:54 am EDT

I don't understand. All sins are equal, yes? If you have divorced, how are you any less of a sinner than a gay person? Everyone sins, we all know that. None of us are without sin. So...any person that is a minister will be a sinner, so what's the difference? Technically, the sin is a man having sex with another man (to my knowledge the Bible doesn't mention 2 women together), so if he prays for forgiveness after each time, then he is no worse than you, who have prayed for forgiveness for your divorce.

bigwill

April 23, 2009 - 3:52 pm EDT

LOL...Where does it say that getting a divorce is a sin. Also, if you know a minister that is living in sin, I think you might need to look elsewhere. There is a difference in commiting a sin, asking for forgiveness, and not performing the sin again and then there is becoming a minister, being a minister who is gay, and not changing his ways. That would be like a cop arresting a drunk driver and then the cop drink a beer on the way to the station to drop him off. My minister lives his life by the Bible, as he should. He is appointed to teach me the Word of God and how I should live my life. It would be hard for me to listen to someone tell me how to live my life under God's Word, when the person can't even follow his own preaching because he is gay. By the way, it does say women should not lay together. You would know that if you read.

amybods

April 25, 2009 - 7:18 pm EDT

LOL to yourself. Paul says "to the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): a wife must not separate from her husband." Maybe you're the one that needs to take a second look? Show me where the bible says women should not lay together. Prove it. Like I said, everyone is a sinner so what difference does it make? All sins are equal. If it's not divorce, it's something else. Asking for forgiveness for sin doesn't mean you will never sin again, that's impossible. Your minister follows the Bible does he? I guess he doesn't eat shrimp or get haircuts. I wonder how many wives he has and how many slaves (all things the Bible endorses, as I'm sure you know). When it comes down to it, the Bible is made up of words on a page. Religion is in the heart.

wctbl?

April 23, 2009 - 12:02 pm EDT

Poor jeffjet! The Bible is for living, not punishment.

Homosexuality is not an active sin. Biblical scholars disagree about whether homosexual practice is sinful. We are to honor Scripture as its witness to Jesus Christ. Our calling is to submit in all things to the Lordship of Jesus Christ who called on all sorts of unexpected people to be his disciples and do the work of the kingdom. Jesus Christ welcomed all to the table.

And jeffjet, i welcome you!

Citizen

April 23, 2009 - 12:11 pm EDT

This is exactly why myself and many others have abandoned Christianity. How can anyone be expected to accept a religion that is supposed to be loving and accepting of all of God's creatures, when that religion doesn't do that? I just can't stand the hypocrisy. Therefore I would rather not be a Christian at all.

wctbl?

April 23, 2009 - 12:32 pm EDT

Citizen,
PCUSA, Salem Presbytery, and many many folks are loving and accepting of ALL God's creatures. It is a long process of change and understanding. The religion you seek is available here in 2009 in Greensboro, NC, USA. Be what you believe.

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