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Council's misfire over guns in parks

I was, frankly, mystified that the City Council failed to muster enough votes Tuesday night to pass a ban on concealed handguns in local parks and recreation facilities.

Do we really want guns in these places?

Do we need them?

Does it matter that the Parks & Recreation Department and the police chief favor the ban?

Is there any empirical evidence that parks and playing fields are unsafe places?

The vote was 5-4 in favor but six votes were required to pass the ban.

A second 5-4 vote in the next council meeting would mean it passes anyway.

But I didn't expect it would be this difficult.

Concealed handguns, meanwhile, are not allowed in City Hall.

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Posted by Allen Johnson on Wednesday, February 22, 2012 at 9:15 pm

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BillWright

February 22, 2012 - 10:39 pm EST

Is it your fear of law abiding citizens exercising their civil rights, or the 2nd Amendment in general? Do you have a problem with me sitting behind you in a restaurant with a handgun legally concealed while enjoying a meal? Does the fact that the bad guy waiting on the jogging path for a young woman to pass by, knowing that she is unarmed not concern you?
We are, according to all law enforcement entities, the most law abiding citizens in the county. I don't understand your fear of us exercising the rights afforded to us by the Constitution. Remember, what can be taken away can be regained in the ballot box.

Panacea

February 23, 2012 - 6:33 pm EST

I do have a problem with you have a concealed gun in a restaurant I'm in.

I don't see a villain behind every bush in a park.

I fear you because because I have no doubt you would start shooting without regard to whomever else is around if you felt threatened . . . that should you ever be forced to use your weapon that you will very well injure someone else.

brian444

February 23, 2012 - 1:48 am EST

I am similarly mystified by the council's brief delay in implementing its Nanny State, Big Brother, Crony Capitalism agenda. I can't make sense of it. The cognitive dissonance is killing me!

Allen, do you have any empirical evidence that freedom of religion or the right to free speech is necessary at local parks? Do we really need them there? Do we really want people praying out loud while they walk their dog or voicing political opinions while they're playing hoops?

Should a positive case need be made for the exercise of all Constitution rights in all distinctive places, or only those rights of which you personally disapprove?

Allen Johnson

February 23, 2012 - 9:58 am EST

So you're for the right to carry guns all the time everywhere? School grounds? Courthouses? Workplaces?

brian444

February 23, 2012 - 11:43 am EST

No, and I also don't believe in the right to yell "fire" in a crowded movie theatre or the right to deny your child medical care because your religion dictates that. Even constitutional rights have limits. But the threshold for defining those limits should be high, and should require that a compelling case, probably involving the violation of the rights of others, be made in order to define that threshold.

Your standard is totally different. You require "empirical" proof that this right is necessary in this place. You ask whether we "really want" this right at this place.

Allen Johnson

February 23, 2012 - 11:46 am EST

So, where do you draw the line and why? It's dark late at night after City Council meetings. Why shouldn't I be able to take a weapon with me if I'm a law-abiding citizen?

brian444

February 23, 2012 - 12:38 pm EST

In that instance, it's fine with me if you do. I would support your right as a law-abiding citizen (if indeed you are), since I see no violation of others' rights involved in the exercise of yours. Plus, City Council meetings can be dangerous places (see example below).

When property rights are involved, that changes the situation.

bbzeus14

February 23, 2012 - 5:30 am EST

Well, you know, our western heroes like Wyatt Earp worked hard to reduce the scourge of gun violance by requiring people to check their guns at the city limit, only to have latter-day imbeciles (NRA-types today) win at their effort to re-arm the population. So, how comforting to know that children on vacation this summer in our city parks may be gunned down by those with poor impulse control who think they can resolve their problems by pulling a "concealed handgun."

Perhaps it's a good idea for folks carrying a concealed gun be required to wear a sign that says, "I'm packing heat, so beware!"

Police Chief Ken Milleer said he could see no need to allow guns in city parks. Voila'

And I, for one, will steer clear of our city parks if visitors are allowed entry with loaded and concealed weapons.

I wonder: does the city allow folks to carry concealed guns into banks? Just askin'

Boooooo guns!

BillWright

February 23, 2012 - 7:33 am EST

Ken Miller also appointed Cpt. Hinson to lecture cops on ethical behavior.

Doug Johnson

February 23, 2012 - 5:30 am EST

Great post bill, Brian,
I am not a gun person, however I do believe in the constitution.
So I would guess you have 5 council members that believe in the constitution,

Allen Johnson

February 23, 2012 - 9:59 am EST

The vote was 5-4 FOR the ban, Doug. But they needed six votes.

brian444

February 23, 2012 - 11:49 am EST

Yes, Doug, it was, as Allen says, only four who believed in the constitution.

BillWright

February 23, 2012 - 7:20 am EST

Thanks for the vote of confidence bbzeus14- I am one of your "latter-day imbeciles (NRA types today) who carries concealed and has since the statute was updated to shall issue in 1995. Perhaps since you are so anti-gun, you should post a sign in your front yard that states you are proudly anti-gun, and that there are none of the devilish devices in your home.
Now that it is being advertised that there are more killing fields (i.e. gun free zones) that will be available to predators who ignore such impotent efforts to stop them, we will see more felonious assaults. Hope not, but this would take the mystery out of the equation. Those of us who endure the intense background checks, fingerprinting, and exorbitant cost of exercising our rights do so, not in hopes of a shootout (what an imbecilic idea) but in hopes of protecting ourselves and our families. How you deal with those who want something that you have is up to you- don't deny me the right to protect myself. And the latter day imbeciles of whom you speak still fight against incursions on our rights which were born of southern democrats desire to disarm freed blacks after the civil war. It all comes back to democrat fear of a well armed citizenry, white or black.

bbzeus14

February 23, 2012 - 9:57 am EST

So, Bill, do you call a city park, "the OK Corral?"

BillWright

February 23, 2012 - 7:30 am EST

And Allen- concealed carry laws are much like the bible- people make statements about which they have no real knowledge in hopes of supporting their skewed and flawed views.
Here's a challenge- without actually buying a handgun, go to the Sheriff's Office and get a permit to purchase. When you receive your permit, then apply to the Sheriff's Office for a concealed handgun permit. Then it's off to Caliber's or one of the other locations where you can receive CCH training and take the course. Once you pass, you may speak with authority on the process you must go through in order to exercise this basic civil right, and the only time you will have to shoot is at the instructors location to pass the course.

papanther

February 23, 2012 - 9:08 am EST

Perhaps I may speak with authority since I have been through the process and have a valid permit. While i support the right to carry, getting a permit is not tough unless you have a checkered past, are unable to sit for several hours while an instructor gives an overview of the laws, or cannot hold a gun above your waistline. it takes more will and stamina to go through the hoops than marksmanship or skill and that is a little scary to me. Lets not pretend the process is all that rigorous.

bbzeus14

February 23, 2012 - 2:15 pm EST

SO ? What's your point, Bill? I was rated "expert rifleman" in the U. S. Army.

BillWright

February 23, 2012 - 7:41 am EST

For those who are unfamiliar with the requirements of CCH permittees, this quick reference from the NC General Assembly my help-

http://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/byarticle/chapter_...

bbzeus14

February 23, 2012 - 11:01 am EST

Attention Bellamy-Small, Matheny, Vaughan and Wade: Have you heard about what happened at the Kirkwood (Mo.) City Council -meeting? A shooting rampage left 6 dead and 2 wounded. Those killed were the mayor, two council members, two police officers, and the public works director.

So, being an irresponsible idiot is apparently not reason enough to bar someone from having a permit to carry a loaded handgun into a city park?

brian444

February 23, 2012 - 12:01 pm EST

Shooters like this give concealed permit holders a bad name. The guy did have a permit, right?

Do I really have to ask? He didn't have a permit.

The mayor who was killed, however, did have a permit, but was unable to carry a gun into the council meeting. Irony.

BillWright

February 23, 2012 - 6:28 pm EST

An irony lost on the uninformed.
bbzeus14- are you planning on hiding an AR15 in your shorts? OK Corral is a sick fantasy in the minds of the fearful. It's called hoplophobia.

overtaxed

February 24, 2012 - 7:10 pm EST

I bet those who were close to Beverly Hope Melton, Eve Carson, Christopher Newsome, Channon Christian,and others to numerous to mention that were brutally raped, tortured,and murdered, wished they (the victims) had been LEGALLY ARMED.

I know most are familiar with the tragic murder of UNC Student Body President Eve Carson, but there was little or no information provided by our local or national news about the murder of Beverly Hope Melton in SC and the Newsome-Christian murders in Tenn.

http://www.wcnc.com/video/featured-videos/Video-shows-kidnapped-womans-l...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/newsom.asp