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Thinking Out Loud

A new online letters policy

Effective today, each letter posted online will be open to reader comments for 24 hours.

This will keep comments fresh and timely and will enable us to monitor the content of each comment thread more closely and effectively.

Another new practice: We will keep tabs on repeat offenders who violate our rules concerning taste and foul language.

You will be required in those cases to re-register providing provide the same information you would as a print letter writer: name, address and telephone number.

That information will be known only to us, but we will use it to contact you if the need arises.

And we will ban you from commenting if you continue to violate our guidelines.

As we have said before, we've invited you into our house, and welcome you there, but we expect you to follow the house rules.

If you don't, we will invite you to leave.

We began the letters blog to provide a place for spirited but civil debate of the issues.

That remains our goal and we'd appreciate your help in achieving it.

 
Posted by Allen Johnson on Monday, August 17, 2009 at 1:46 pm

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nemo0037

August 17, 2009 - 2:50 pm EDT

Your changes sound reasonable. Good for you. I hope that this cuts back at least a little on the flame-spewing crowd.

rahrah

August 17, 2009 - 5:45 pm EDT

Anyway you could make it 48 hours? Sometimes the best conversations don't get started until late in the day and can carry over into the next.

Allen Johnson

August 17, 2009 - 5:49 pm EDT

Rah-rah:
We did consider a bigger window, but, in our experience, the bulk of the comments (especially the more relevant ones) tend to flow in the first several hours.

rahrah

August 17, 2009 - 6:16 pm EDT

Thanks for the response.

Panacea

August 17, 2009 - 11:41 pm EDT

Ah, nuts. I agree with rahrah . . . sometimes the best comments come in a little late--folks who work odd hours and such.

Oh well!

Yvonne

August 18, 2009 - 3:09 pm EDT

From the time the ltte come out at 3AM to 3AM the next morning, the window for comments is NOT a full 24 hours for most people. In fact, this time frame severely restricts those folks who work day jobs. By the time a day worker works an 8 or 12 hour shift, that cuts their participation to about 6 hours since most sleep from about 11PM to about 5-6AM.

Thus I feel 24 hours, since it actually is not a full 24 hours for active participation, is not adequate. Then, again, I think this is micro-managing the ltte blog. But since we were not asked for any input until AFTER the decision was made and initiated, I guess you (general) don't really care what any of the participants really think.

left-wing conspiracy theorist

August 17, 2009 - 7:11 pm EDT

Thank you for not giving up 'the public option'.

Any way, any chance of us being able to throw in some html?

spaschall

August 18, 2009 - 11:42 am EDT

We've gone back and forth on this, left-wing. We realize folks would like to be able to use limited mark-up, but there are so many opportunities for abuse (and for royally wrecking our page structure unless we use some sort of meta-markup) that we'd really rather stick to good ol' plain text. It's bad enough when people can't seem to figure out how to turn off caps lock. That said, I'm personally still on the fence and willing to listen to arguments in favor.

Stephen P. Paschall
Senior Developer

rahrah

August 18, 2009 - 5:27 pm EDT

I think the current amount of mark-up allowed is nearly adequate except that I've found for it to work I have to write my comment and then edit it and change my input format. If there is a better way, I'd like to know it. If there isn't, I'd like to have the option upfront.

Of course, I think people who type everything in all caps do that on purpose, perhaps because they think it makes them special. I think we're usually pretty good at informing those folks how annoying they are.

rahrah

August 18, 2009 - 5:42 pm EDT

Also, I did really enjoy the feature of the old format where I could move to the next letter without going back to the main LTE page or just opening them all in different tabs. That was pretty useful.

J D R

August 18, 2009 - 6:55 am EDT

Allen Johnson may prove one cannot argue with City Hall, but I too would vote for a bigger window. Frankly I’ll not sure why any window is even needed; after some period of time folks stop commenting anyway, but hey, I'm just not a believer in non-essential g-man interference: City Hall ... N-R Nanny ... or otherwise.

Ditto the "monitor the content of each comment." We are big boys and girls and if someone gets out of line they are simply ignored or "reported". What the intent of "monitoring" anyway? Curse words (the Big Seven)? Nasty Comments (Oh My God!)? Conduct unbecoming an Officer? It surely can’t be not allowing the posting of fiction or faux-facts; Lord knows we see them in not only the comments but the actual LTE’s. Maybe the N-R should add to the formal policy "Vetting Not Required".

Sorry Allen - that's my opinion .. well worth a cup of cheap coffee when an additional 99 cents + tax is added.

Allen Johnson

August 18, 2009 - 8:28 am EDT

JDR:
I see where you're coming from, but some of the comments have had a chilling effect, especially when they veer into mean-spirited personal attacks as well as racism and sexism.
Our mission for this blog is to create a place for civil discussion. These kinds of comments make that much harder.
In addition, we're also trying to be respectful of letter writers, who have put their real names out there, and who don't deserve to be battered for standing up and having an opinion.
Again, we don't mind spirited debate -- in fact, we encourage it -- but there are places these comments shouldn't go.

J D R

August 18, 2009 - 9:51 am EDT

I understand. My issue, as Rahrah points out .. is some of the best exchanges take place over several days. In particular I can remember at least 2 times when Neocon & I have gone on for perhaps a week discussing an issue in detail .. for me they were meaningful discussions, and I'll be Neo would agree. It could be argued perhaps he and I should just exchange e-mails or meet at O'Henry's and buy each other a beer ... but until then, I will miss those opportunities.

J D R

August 18, 2009 - 9:50 am EDT

PS .. why won't you print my dang letters! (lol)

Yvonne

August 18, 2009 - 3:27 pm EDT

This response, Allen, reminds me of grade school when the bad behavior of one or two kids would cause us all to have to stay inside for recess. As an adult, who can make my own choices as to whether to read or not read a post, to get offended or not get offended, to respond or not respond, I think everyone else has that same right/responsibility.

I say this as one who uses my own name and as one who has been terribly maligned, by some, over the years (since the inception of this forum). No one forces me to read or respond to insults. It is a known fact I almost always skip neocon's posts. He and JDR may have good discussions since both of them are men. But neo has rarely afforded me any respect. So I just scroll past his posts. We all have that option and do not, imho, need someone at the N-R protecting us from ourselves. Just my opinion, for what it is worth.

rahrah

August 18, 2009 - 5:53 pm EDT

Arguably, I'm an adult.

And while I might understand the censorship of blatant insults, especially those containing profanity, what exactly constitutes racism and and sexism can be quite subjective. Besides, leaving those comments available for viewing can show other readers whether or not the writer is worthy of a response. I also fear that satire and sarcasm may be misinterpreted. Anyway, I hope that, at the least, your censors will be restrained and err on the side of leaving comments for viewing.

I still also think that a 48 hour window or longer might be better.

(Just a note, you'll find no dash or capitalization in my moniker. It is intentional.)

Allen Johnson

August 18, 2009 - 6:24 pm EDT

Sorry about mangling your name, rahrah.
The offensive references we're speaking of were far from subtle.
As for removing posts, we won't be heavy-handed as long as commenters aren't.
On the 48-hour window, we did mull that as an option; let's try 24 first and see how it goes.

Allen Johnson

August 18, 2009 - 8:30 am EDT

Panacea:
We hope you and others will be willing to be quicker on the draw.

Loyaltee

August 18, 2009 - 9:50 am EDT

I agree Allen; some comments I have read have been what I would consider rude, and disrespectful; some racist or sexist in nature. Many times I wonder why? Why can't we disagree, tell each why we disagree without personal attacks, combative and oppressive words? Hmmm?

Allen Johnson

August 18, 2009 - 3:43 pm EDT

Yvonne:
You make valid points. But we believe the few who misbehave discourage others who may want to participate.
Some letter writers and commenters leave threads feeling as if they've been mugged in a dark alley.
We don't mind spirited exchanges. We don't care if you get downright testy.
Disagree. Challenge one another.
We are simply asking adults to behave as adults.

J D R

August 23, 2009 - 7:19 am EDT

Allen .. I HATE your new policy.

Case inpoint:

http://www.news-record.com/content/2009/08/20/article/market_changes_aff...

Tahoeman & I are having a very civil discussion .. but I cannot readily respond to his fair question posted a 1 am last night.

By The Way .. I HATE your new policy.

... and P.S. .. note that your own thread is open well beyond the 24 hours .. maybe you are trying to set an example .. ??

... and P.P.S. .. "We are simply asking adults to behave as adults." No you're not .. you are imposing a control on others you have not imposed on yourself.

rahrah

August 24, 2009 - 3:05 am EDT

Testy, JDR...though I agree, a longer window would be better...but Mr. Johnson and N&R staff did mull it over.

This (probably) will be the last time I say anything. Forty-Eight hours Mr. Johnson? Please? I mean...a longer window will give pages more clicks, cause lowly blog commentators to spend more time on your site which, you know, might equal more ad revenue. I mean...last week sometime 'danagain' mentioned that all his time here listening to that horrible golf ball break the glass convinced him to purchase tickets to the Wyndham tournament. You are a business, right? What's another 24 hours going to hurt?

Again, (probably) the last time I say anything.

Allen Johnson

August 23, 2009 - 9:27 am EDT

JDR:
The policy only applies to the letters blog, because of the sheer volume of daily entries and comments.
Sorry, you had to end your conversation. You could always continue it in another venue.

Yvonne

August 23, 2009 - 3:18 pm EDT

I agree with JDR. I dislike your new policy. If, however, you insist on remaining inflexible, might I make an additional suggestion? If you are going to close ltte comments after 24 hours, why even keep the letters and comments on the same page as new letters? What is the purpose since this forum is suppose to be interactive and you have eliminated that possibility after 24 hours? You may as well go ahead and archive yesterday's letters since they are serving no useful purpose anymore.

Allen Johnson

August 23, 2009 - 3:21 pm EDT

Yvonne:
As we see it, keeping the letters posted still allows readers to look them up and to sample the reactions as well.
In the archives you'd only get the original letters.

Allen Johnson

August 23, 2009 - 3:27 pm EDT

Also, Yvonne, to an earlier point you made, you raise a valid argument about the window to comment being even smaller than 24 hours, since letters are posted at 3 a.m., when typically no one's up yet to read or comment on them.
We thought about that too.
So, even though the official, advertised comment window for letters is 24 hours, there's a built-in fudge factor. It's actually 27 hours.

American

August 30, 2009 - 8:44 am EDT

Thank you Mr. Johnson, for your attempt at keeping things a little more civil. I hope it works. Since this isn't my hometown paper I don't get here too often, but can say that this blog is not as mean spirited as the crosstown WS Journal. Have you seen that one? A small group of bloggers prowl the comments and tear up others who comment on the letters and articles. Very ugly. What you're doing makes sense. Good luck.

Allen Johnson

August 31, 2009 - 9:21 am EDT

Thanks for the encouragement. I tend to think civility will win out, one way or the other, both through our policies, enforcement of those policies and peer pressure from other commenters.

Yvonne

August 31, 2009 - 7:46 am EDT

This is the second day in a row there has been no way to comment on the ltte blog. What's up with that?

Allen Johnson

August 31, 2009 - 9:25 am EDT

Sorry about that, Yvonne. We'll have it fixed shortly.

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