news-record.com

Mr. Keller,
First of all how disparinging was your lack of comment regarding Dudley High School's basketball season. You are entitled to your opinon regarding the polls but to be so negative and dismissive of all there talent and accomplishments was really unprofessional. Dudley has beaten a nationally ranked team, international teams and most of the local teams including Ragsdale this summer for the State Games held at the Greensboro Coliseum. All of this for their 2008 - 2009 season. I didn't see any credit given to them from your paper regarding the win over Word of God unless it was directly promoting the Oakhill game against Northern High School. Northern recieved front page coverage in the sports session of the News and Record with pictures and a full artcle without a win. I do think its appropiate that you covered their game but your obvious lack of interest in Dudley's program was made even more apparent by your lack of details of their accomplishments in your poll. If you favor GDS -- that is fine but why be so negative and dismissive of what Dudley has accomplished. Even you knew you were not being professional that is why your negative statement about the Dudley propaganda to justify your for Dudley high school and their fans. Shame on you for not being a fair and unbiased journalist.

Tom we have had many conversations and I will say I am very disappointed in your media bias. The obvious snub given to Dudley in your article is not that you have ranked us # 2, you are entitled to your own opinion, but the way the list is compiled. Beside every other team you summarize their accomplishments this season that have earned them a place on this list. Next to #2.Dudley....nothing!! Are we undeserving of having our accolades printed? Everything that you have written about Dudley in this article is negative and proves that my suspicions about the News and Record have been right all along. There is a general dislike for Dudley and whether it is intentional or unintentional it does not make it acceptable.

For example, if #2 Dudley had been given accolades like every other school on the list it could have read, "How can you pick against the Panthers when they have only lost one game this season, beaten Word of God who was the USA Today #8 ranked team nationally and features a team of major Division I prospects. Dudley traveled to Puerto Rico over Christmas break where they went 2-1 in international competition and exposed their student athletes to a unique cultural experience. The Panthers are currently ranked # 7 in the South Region USA Today Poll."

This particular quote from your article, “…[W]ere actually here for the Pizza Hut Invitational to prove their place on the court? Dudley has been putting up ridiculous scores and is a lock for a long playoff run, but it would take a head-to-head meeting to logically bump them up." is the very idea that part or your bias is based on. Greensboro Day has an excellent team year in and year out and so does Dudley. A poll for the 2008-2009 season should be exactly that; for the 2008-2009 season, not based on what has taken place over the course of seasons past.

I would also like to point out another thing that is quite negative and speaks again to your dislike of Dudley. "This will surely flood my inbox with Panthers propaganda..." Some define propaganda as a narrowly selfish attempt to get people to accept ideas and beliefs, always in the interest of a particular person or group and with little or no advantage to the public. This very statement says to me that you feel any response that is made to your article is worthless and of no advantage to the community of Greensboro. To be quite honest I'm not surprised. I am however troubled that you have put together a list that is so blatantly biased, negative, and disrespectful to one school. I 'm sure you will defend yourself against my response to the end. May I suggest that you take a momnet to actually self examine your article to see the negativity that it displays. Your work should not be about negativity, but building up the educational institutions that these student athletes attend and making sure that the relationships between institutions are not strained based on the past. I will leave you with a quote that came to mind as I was responding to this article that I thought you might consider before your next Mighty Nine Poll.

"The past is prophetic in that it asserts loudly that wars are poor chisels for carving out peaceful tomorrows." Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

This is why polls are worthless.

The previous post was not meant in any way to diminish Dudley’s resume. As pointed out, the Panthers beat the then-No. 8 team in the nation and are currently ranked seventh in the South by USA Today. (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/basketball/poll/2008-09-regionm.htm.) It’s just hard to stack them up in this county when we haven’t seen them on the floor against a lot of the other top teams, that's all.

To be perfectly honest, I think the whole debate is a waste of breath. Dudley is a great team. So is Greensboro Day. I’d be surprised if ether doesn’t make the state title game. If they don’t play this season, we’ll have no definitive way of saying who’s better.

I don’t know how many times I can say this: There is no bias against any one school here. People who think there is are going to find it no matter what. I've never meant a word of what I've written for the paper to be negative. I don't sit around thinking how I can many anyone look bad. We cover almost 30 schools. My only bias is to try to give everyone fair play.

Clearly, I did not do a good job of getting a healthy debate going on this topic. Sorry for that.

Tom

No need to clean the article up buddy. Jeff Carlton is turning over in his grave! How in the world could the news-record leave the high school sports with such an idiot?? Who cares about this mighty nine ranking? It doesn't mean a thing. Dudley has bigger fish to fry. They strive to be the best team in the state year in and year out! If you would have put the hate beside Dudley at #2 instead of nothing I would have called u a hater. Since Dudley was the the only school that had nothing, now you have to be a racist. I call it like I see it! How can anyone argue that you are not after reading this???

PS Barack took over last week. You have to be a little more discreet in hiding your racism buddy.

Tom,

My question is, should GDS even be ranked with the public schools considering they are under different rules and that they are a private school which have five and sixth year players. I think that they should not be because they are a private school and the rest of these schools are public schools with kids that are 4 YEAR HIGH SCHOOL student athletes. For example think of how more dominant Dudley would be if they could keep all of the athletes that they have had over recent years for an extra 2 or 3 years, then I assume that there would be articles written about how Dudley have all of these guys that are staying longer than 4 years just so they could play high school basketball. All I am asking is to give credict where credict is do. I have been reading on Greensborosports.com on how all of a sudden there should be a Dudley vs. GDS game, for what; because Dudley is ranked nationally in the southeast region and GDS is no where to be found. How can you be the only team from this area nationally and not be ranked #1 in your city or area? Ask yourself TOM does that make any sense considering you done the polls. It sounds like to me that the coach of GDS feels like if he were to play Dudley and win it would make his strength of schedule look better. News Flash it won't. Playing teams in the MLK scholastic shootout like Glenn Highschool will not make you a better team( no disrespect to Glenn Highschool). That is just a win to make your record look better going up against schools with less talent knowing that they can not compete, same for as when they played against Carboro if I'm not mistaking. All I am saying is that if GDS is awarded a #1 ranking let them earn by beating good quality schools such as Christ School, Word of God, Oak Hill or even Northern Guilford, Kinston and Dudley,don't just give it to them.

"barack":

Throwing charges of racism around like that is incredibly offensive and hurtful. Dudley's capsule was combined with Greensboro Day's so they could be compared together - that's the only reason there's nothing right next to them. Ragsdale's girls got the same treatment so they could be discussed with Southeast.

The Answer:

You're right, it is hard to compare public and private schools, especially ones that play such different schedules. I don't think the eligibility thing is as big an issue as people make it out to be, though. It's not like Greensboro Day gets to play 24-year-olds. Again, this is why off-the-court talk is cheap, and why I don't like these polls in the first place.

Mr. Keller,
I don't usually respond to these polls because I feel everyone is entitled to their opinon, however I was very offended by your assertion regarding the legitimacy of feed back you would receive from the Dudley supporters. How dare you call any response to your poll "Dudley propaganda". When did true and accurate statements of concerns and support for a team become propaganda? You made no reference of propaganda being elicited from any other team when listing supporting arguments for other schools in the polls. You claim these polls mean nothing and you are reluctant to give them however words mean everything. You as a journalist should know this better than anyone that the impact of your words can affect many. Pity on you for not following what I'm suyre they taught you in journalism. I don't think anyone cares that you listed GDS as the lead team because that is your opinon, but if you honestly reread your article then you to must admit that it has a negaive overtone when referencing Dudley. Yes, you cover 30 schools but it does not justify your obvious disrespect, lack of fairness, and lack of knowledge regarding the true accomplishments of Dudley. I don't feel as a Dudley supporter that I must partake in propaganda to justify that they are truly a great team maybe not first in your book but a team that deserved a better treatment. By the way your comments regarding the Ragsdale girls does not hold water because both records were listed fairly/positively.

Tom,
You seemed to have opened up a can of worms on this one! If your intentions were to get discussion going about your poll, then it was genious. You deserve a promotion. Yes Coach Price is my dad, and I live in Oklahoma. But I'm not even going to take the approach of defending him or his team. I'm just going to give it to you from my point of view. For some odd reason, everytime I talk to my dad after a big win, my first question to him is "What did they have in the paper?" And for some odd reason the answer is "..." Well I won't put him out there like that. I get more information from scout.com (based out of Wake County) than the GREENSBORO News and Record. Did you guys change your name? Are you not located in Greensboro anymore? Now to me, it would only make sense to report accomplishments within Greensboro. But instead you create polls, not to rate teams, but to anticipate propaganda? Now I haven't heard words like propaganda thrown out there too often, especially "post civil rights movement". And I believe you aren't racist, and those comments may have hurt your feelings, but I would be careful to whom you provoke. Dudley is a historically black school, and many of it's supporters were fighting battles like this one most of their lives. Many of them are sensitive to certain topics and better yet the way they are portrayed (which is your job). And if your work doesn't have any racial undertones, then don't give people a reason to think so!

Upon further thought...Instead of playing the innocent role after a post like this, man up and take the heat. Some posts will be fair (unlike your poll) and some will be just what you asked suspected...PROPAGANDA!!!

Tom you are right, GDS does not play against 24 year olds, but they do have 19 and 20 year olds playing against kids that are between the ages of 14 and 17. Once again I am not here bashing you, I just think it should be two separate polls. One for private schools and one for public schools

Let me start with your quoted response " It's hard to stack them up in this county when we haven't seen them on the court against a lot of the other top teams". This proves your lack of interest in fairly assessing Dudley's team. Dudley has had several key games that proves thir legitamacy but I doubt if you have ever been to one of their games. Let me list their victories in Greensboro :
1. July 2008 State Games Champion ( final game against Ragsdale Highschool) at Greensboro Coliseum.
2. Word of God victory at Dudley High School. Nat'l Ranked team #8
3. Cummins High School at Dudley High School. A former state champion caliber teamthat includes an ACC signee.
4. Northern Guilford High School at Dudley High School.
5. Mt Zion scrimmage at Dudley -- Double digit victory.

Once again another Dudley fan to point out how unfair, uninformed and biased you have made your poll. Please be fair and impartial.

tom,

They are on you buddy!!! I bet that's the last time you pull a stunt like that! LOL

Best high school sports writers at the news&record

1. Jeff Carlton - knowledgable about all sports, great coverage for all teams and sports. Great people skills!!

2 Bill Hass-very unbiased, great coverage for all teams and sports,

3. Kelli Dixon- good coverage for all schools, traveled to ecu multiple years to cover area schools playing in the regionals.

4. Tom

Looool just wanted to get a quick jab in Tom, Ill be back to finish after the duke/wake game!

Greensboro Day has NO 20 year old kids playing basketball. They may have some 19 year old but under the NCHSAA eligibility rules the same can apply to Dudley as well as any NCHSAA school. The cutoff date for the NCISAA (Greensboro Day) is Aug 1 which means any athlete who turns 19 before that date is ineligible while the cutoff date for the NCHSAA is Oct 16 a 2 1/2 month difference which has little bearing.

Also --Tell us--When is the last time Dudley been Greensboro Day ?? Did Dudley avoid the Little Four beacause of a chance of having to face G-Day again ?

No BBfan Dudley did not get out of the Little Four to dodge GDS, they got out because they were invited to attend an international tournament in Puerto Rico and it happened to be the same time as the Little Four. Now use your brain for a second, would you stay in Greensboro to play, or done what the Dudley coaching staff decided to do, and that's expose their kids to other cultruals and different styles of basketball not to mention having a chance at playing the #3 team in the country, St. Benidict. No one is scared of GDS, quite frankly I believe they could give a #%^m about GDS. If you look at the record book, Dudley has the most Little Four championships. So before you call someone scared do your homework buddy. And another thing, if their so good why is it that the only poll GDS is ranked in is the Greensboro News & Record. Can't find them nowhere on USA Today. In fact if you go on Max Preps Dudley is ranked ahead of the mighty GDS. So BBFan when you have the anwsers, let me know .

BBfan,

I don't want to ask who you think is better because like everyone has said before, that's your opinion. My question to you is, do you think Tom did Dudley wrong by not putting anything by their name and saying that anything their fans post is going to be propaganda?

How would you honestly feel if he said that about your favorite team?

As a matter of fact fans from all teams need to answer those 2 questions.

Greensboro Day CHOSE by a team vote to stay in Greesboro to defend their Little four title(S).
They had the opportunity to travel as well over the holidays but it was a team decision to stay in the area. In fact GDS has travelled to prestigious tournaments throught the nation many, many more times than Dudley. Greensboro Day has appeared in the Little Four 12 times and has 8 titles for a 67% winning average while Dudley has appeared 19 times and won 10 for a 52% average so you be the judge of who has been more successful.

Also you seem to be avoiding a question I posed as to when was the last time Dudley defeated Greensboro Day ?

Greensboro Day CHOSE by a team vote to stay in Greesboro to defend their Little four title(S).
They had the opportunity to travel as well over the holidays but it was a team decision to stay in the area. In fact GDS has travelled to prestigious tournaments throught the nation many, many more times than Dudley. Greensboro Day has appeared in the Little Four 12 times and has 8 titles for a 67% winning average while Dudley has appeared 19 times and won 10 for a 52% average so you be the judge of who has been more successful.

Also you seem to be avoiding a question I posed as to when was the last time Dudley defeated Greensboro Day ?

BBF
Sorry it took that long to do the math, but to all the BBF's out there, let's get back to the real issue that started this discussion. (Has anyone heard or seen Tom lately?) All area schools have reasons to be proud of their athletes and schools. All area schools have the right to make decisions that they feel will best benefit their athletes. If you want to argue, do so with the persons feeding you info that you can't figure out yourself. Let's not make it seem that one tournament defines a team's success for an entire season. It would really be sad if this were true. I thought it was to give teams a chance to hone their skills heading into their all important conference seasons, and for area teams to play schools they normally would not play during the regular season. (even though the latter has changed somewhat;
and I'm in no way implying that's a bad thing for the area. Again, let's get back to the issue at hand. Tom, have you come up with any other excuses yet, or are you ready to man-up?!!!!! True BBFans, let's be fans of all athletes.

BBF
Sorry it took that long to do the math, but to all the BBF's out there, let's get back to the real issue that started this discussion. (Has anyone heard or seen Tom lately?) All area schools have reasons to be proud of their athletes and schools. All area schools have the right to make decisions that they feel will best benefit their athletes. If you want to argue, do so with the persons feeding you info that you can't figure out yourself. Let's not make it seem that one tournament defines a team's success for an entire season. It would really be sad if this were true. I thought it was to give teams a chance to hone their skills heading into their all important conference seasons, and for area teams to play schools they normally would not play during the regular season. (even though the latter has changed somewhat;
and I'm in no way implying that's a bad thing for the area. Again, let's get back to the issue at hand. Tom, have you come up with any other excuses yet, or are you ready to man-up?!!!!! True BBFans, let's be fans of all athletes.

BBF
Sorry it took that long to do the math, but to all the BBF's out there, let's get back to the real issue that started this discussion. (Has anyone heard or seen Tom lately?) All area schools have reasons to be proud of their athletes and schools. All area schools have the right to make decisions that they feel will best benefit their athletes. If you want to argue, do so with the persons feeding you info that you can't figure out yourself. Let's not make it seem that one tournament defines a team's success for an entire season. It would really be sad if this were true. I thought it was to give teams a chance to hone their skills heading into their all important conference seasons, and for area teams to play schools they normally would not play during the regular season. (even though the latter has changed somewhat;
and I'm in no way implying that's a bad thing for the area. Again, let's get back to the issue at hand. Tom, have you come up with any other excuses yet, or are you ready to man-up?!!!!! True BBFans, let's be fans of all athletes.

BBF,
Are you Tom's brother? You two have got to be two of the biggest clown's in town. Do you really think GDS got invited to a holiday tournament somewhere? Dudley is having a great season ranked 7th in the USA today (south) ranked 8th on Max preps com. Will be ranked # 1 in the NC preps State 3A ranking. Why do you keep trying to compare a private school who have fifth and sixth year players to public schools who's players play for four years?

mike s

Simply put once again---How long has it been since Dudley beat Greensboro Day ?

Rankings are comparable to fools gold--pretty to look at but basically worthless. The true issue is settled on the court where it has been how many years since Dudley beat GDS ??

To BBFan
Since you were so "swift" with the math before, we'll let you do the honors of "posting it", after you get the numbers from your informants, or whoever is putting your uninformed, and one track mind out there for everyone to see. (Who cares!) As I said before, I'm a fan too, but even I know that Dudley only meets GDS one time a season at most. (Besides you, who else bases, whatever it is you are aiming at, on such miniscule data.) Then, will you read something else besides Tom's rankings , in other papers that cover the entire state and the country, such as USA Today. Then maybe you may begin to comprehend that even an honorable mention in such prestigious polls are not "fools gold", unless you are a f___, or aren't mentioned. Oh, "BBFan", sometimes other papers have pictures, so even you might begin to see the "big picture".
One more request, start your own blog, so we can get back on "Tom", and not wander off into other matters that have no bearing on the real issue at hand. (Which was the disrespect of not even awarding one fact or comment beside Dudley in Tom's poll)

And still you Dud-heads refuse to answer the question posed to you instead continuing to ramble about rankings so once again I will ask you--

How long has it been since Dudley beat Greensboro Day ?

As former president Harry S Truman once stated
"I don't anyone hell. I tell the truth and they think its hell."

Durham (2006)!

dudley's season does not hinge on a game with gboro day. Gboro day has nothing else to play for ex except the little 4! Loool I guess that's why they mad dudley went to puerto rico. Since you know so much, what's the gboro day/dudley win loss total since day joined the little 4?

I have indeed enjoyed reading the comments posted. I would like to see the conversation focus back on what the main issue is. Not the win/loss records of the teams, not the Little 4, not GDS fans bashing Dudley fans or vise versa. The main objective is to call out the blatent negativity towards Dudley High School and the way the News and Record tries to cover up thier hidden affiliation and alliance to one school over another. Could someone from GDS take their head out of the sand and please comment on the topic at hand! I though the comments from Coach Price's son were very relevant to the discussion. I also think the comments of Wendy Poteat were very well written and from what I understand she is the mother of PJ Hairston who is one of the best players on the current Dudley team.

Northern Guilford exposed what it seems very few of us were aware of concerning dudley and the dud-hreads

OVER-RATED

Somehow I stumbled over this blog and I am shock by comments. My daughter plays for one of the local teams. Is really this serious to go and forth posting negative comments and calling people racist? What happen to the love of game? As parents and fans we get so caught in the politics of the game which takes away the essences of the game. Frankly, I don't care how my daughter's team is ranked or viewed because I know that when her team plays they are doing their best. These rivalry attitudes, negative comments, and beliefs spills over into our players and it should not. So what... Dudley and GDS? It is really that big of a deal? And for who? At the end of the day when it is all said and done, what really matters? There are more important things in our children's lives than what their team's ranking. The players go out there on the court and give it there all and you are going backing forth over something so petty and meaningless.

I must be missing something....